Talk:Paul Nehlen

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because it is factually accurate, well sourced, and according to wikipedia editing principles. Every statement in this article is well cited by reputable publications, such as Newsweek. Furthermore, there is no page on this politician, nothing to indicate prior deletions, and no talk page. Thank you. --Ianvsh (talk) 03:17, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

The article is in fact factual. 47.151.1.140 (talk) 03:30, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

The article is NOT, in fact, factual. In the very first sentence someone calls him a "white supremacist" and cites five articles as references. NONE of those articles actually use that pejorative to describe Nehlen. Bombastic "click bait" headlines aside, just take a look at the first one. Go to the article at Al Jazeera and do a CTRL-F search for "supremacist." You'll find 12 times that it is used on that page: it is used to describe people like David Duke and Arthur Jones but NOT ONE SINGLE TIME to describe Nehlen. In fact, the only time Nehlen and supremacist appear in the same sentence is, "Last month, Nehlen, who has not publicly described himself as a white supremacist, appeared on a radio..."
Using "references" that do not actually substantiate the use of such a pejorative not only would be considered prima fascia evidence of libel, it is also a clear violation of Wikipedia's "2nd Pillar", "Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view."
Changing this sentence to read, "an American politician" would be factually correct...and probably still a sufficient insult in most peoples' minds.
QPhysics137 (talk) 19:38, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

@QPhysics137: I've warned you about WP:NLT and claiming the article contains libel on my talk page. Consider this a final warning. If you do so again then I will block you. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:14, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

@NeilN: "I've warned you about WP:NLT and claiming the article contains libel on my talk page." Okay doofus...do you honestly NOT realize that I have never said anything about me or anyone else bringing legal action? Are you THAT incapable of reading and understanding simple (and I'm trying to keep it VERY simple for you) English? LOL QPhysics137 (talk) 21:23, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

@QPhysics137: By constantly referring to the material as libelous you are implying editors and/or the WMF could be sued for adding the material. This creates a chilling effect on the normal editing process which is not acceptable here. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:30, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

@NeilN: "By constantly referring to the material as libelous you are implying editors and/or the WMF could be sued for adding the material. " LOL Do you even read the stuff you reference, or do you just make up what you wish it said in your head and then act on that as if it were correct. Here, let me educate you:
From Wikipedia:No legal threats
"Do not make legal threats on Wikipedia. A legal threat, in this context, is a threat to engage in an external (real life) legal or other governmental process that would target other editors."
"A discussion as to whether material is libelous is not a legal threat."
There...you're smarter, or at least have more knowledge, now. So stop making threats against me...trying to "create a chilling effect" on my Wikipedia-given right to edit and point out errors. QPhysics137 (talk) 21:38, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

@QPhysics137: Okay, let's review the sources:

• Al Jazeera says "Alarm over white supremacist candidates in US // Among the ranks of Republican candidates are Holocaust denier Arthur Jones and anti-Semite Paul Nehlen." (the article is about several white supremacists, one of which is Nehlen).
• Times of Israel says "Jewish Republicans ‘very confident’ white supremacist won’t replace Paul Ryan" (the article is about Nehlen).
• Think Progress says "The top Republican candidate to replace Paul Ryan is an avowed white supremacist" (again, the article is about Nehlen).
• Newsweek says "WILL PAUL RYAN BE REPLACED BY A WHITE SUPREMACIST IN WISCONSIN?" (the article is about Nehlen).
• Forward.com says "After Paul Ryan’s Retirement, Can Anti-Semite Paul Nehlen Win The GOP Primary?" (title) with the first sentence being "House Speaker Paul Ryan’s announcement Wednesday that he will not seek another term could open the door for a white supremacist to win the Republican Party’s primary in his district."

These five sources are clearly calling him a white supremacist. What is ambiguous about the wording here? --ChiveFungi (talk) 23:16, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

New articles since second AfD

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xva7p/can-a-union-man-with-dollar14-million-take-down-paul-ryan http://www.newsweek.com/republican-candidate-congress-openly-embraces-white-supremacist-memes-social-753175 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-nehlen-white-nationalism-roy-moore-republican-party_us_5a30471de4b07ff75afe6ffd https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.830272 https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/bannon-backed-candidate-advocates-murdering-paul-ryan-with-a-fascist-death-flight/ https://forward.com/fast-forward/390430/making-bid-for-congress-paul-nehlen-flirts-with-anti-semitic-alt-right/

Ethanbas ^(talk) 05:16, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

• Ethanbas, please do not reinstate that Twitter stuff: this is a BLP. Content needs secondary sourcing. Don't be duking it out with the IP, lest you both get blocked. If need be, ask for semi-protection--but if you reinstate material that doesn't meet BLP guidelines, your hands aren't clean anymore. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 23:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Alt-right removing credible news articles

Alt-right editors are removing news about Nehlen cited from credible sources. These sources are not fake news. Something needs to be done. 47.151.1.140 (talk) 03:26, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia's policy on verifiability (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability) does not consider blogs (such as HuffPo) to be credible sources. Per the BLP, potentially libelous information from such sources must be removed. Please do not attempt to re-insert them. 2602:306:C583:2370:6C21:C6E9:5122:B239 (talk) 05:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

CNN is not fake news. Blogs are acceptable in certain cases. 47.151.1.140 (talk) 07:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Claims of supposed anti-semitism

Nehlen renounces anti-semitism. His position is "America First". Portraying him as anti semitic without noting this would be libelous and against wikipedia's policy on articles of living people. 104.231.250.148 (talk) 14:49, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Looks like you haven't ever looked at his Twitter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.186.129.26 (talk) 03:30, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Wisconsin Open Primaries

Should the results of election include the Democrats and others because Wisconsin holds open primaries? StrayBolt (talk) 19:12, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

White nationalist/antisemitic

My edits were reverted calling Nehlen a white nationalist and an antisemitic conspiracy theorist. The reason given was that it was "undue" and that Nehlen was just "pro-white". I believe his views on race should be in the lead, as he has widely been described as such by notable sources. Thoughts? The current lead makes it seem like he was condemned for Pepe the Frog memes. https://www.thedailybeast.com/breitbart-still-wants-to-make-paul-ryan-miserable-even-without-fking-nazi-paul-nehlen-around and many other articles describe him as a white nationalist.

MichiganWoodShop (talk) 18:06, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I undid you twice, and I did not say that it was because he was just pro-white. My summaries were "undue. One of the sources does not even mention him, a second simply calls him alt-right", "rmv 2 non-existent refs", and "back to the original first sentence. Again, not supported by the cited sources" Please read WP:RS. You cannot label someone a white nationalist, antisemitic, conspiracy theorist, alt-right activist without solid refs. You need reliable sources saying exactly that, and without them it is a BLP violation. I think it's undue to put those labels in the first line even if we do have have reliable sources, but your sources have not justified the labels. The Atlantic ref didn't even mention him, and two named refs didn't exist. DeadSpin called him a white supremacist and anti-semitic, but it is a blog and is thus not a reliable source. Forward called him alt right (but not an alt right activist), and I'm not sure that a Jewish online site is an acceptable source even if they had used"alt right activist". The Washington Examiner ref calls him far-right and reports that Nehlen says he is pro-white but rejects the label White-supremacist. The Washington Post ref says he had made anti-Semitic tweets and had been accused of anti-Semitism, and repeats the pro-white but not White supremacist material. That's not the same as labelling him antisemitic.

I'm not defending him. If we keep this article it will only be because he is notable for running for office while spouting his garbage. The article content makes it clear what he is, but it's not up to us to label him. Meters (talk) 20:41, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

The claim "Nehlen embraced alt-right memes and is openly alt-right, white nationalist, and anti-Semitic." does not match the sourced articles. According to two of the three cited articles, Nehlen did not claim to be a white nationalist which negates the "openly" part. One article does not mention whether or not he is a white nationalist. The third article falsely claims in the headline that Nehlen advocates the murder of Paul Ryan. None of the three articles indicate that Nehlen refers to himself as an anti-Semite. The term "white nationalist" has a precise meaning and the term "alt-right" is amorphous and does not describe a single group of people.. Be careful not to violate WP:POV and WP:Libel. Do not state opinions as facts and replace contentious and opinionated claims like "X is a Y" with "X has been described as a Y by news media sources" Noobnubcakes (talk) 16:53, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Other wikis, such as Wiktionary, are not reliable sources. If reliable sources describe him as alt-right, and he is open about his endorsement of white nationalist/anti-Semitic ideas, policies and similar, there is no major problem here. Accurately reflecting unflattering information reported by other credible sources is not libel. Further, if you are considering legal action, you cannot edit until action or threats of action have been resolved, per WP:NLT. Grayfell (talk) 00:07, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

References

Anyone want to clean up this ridiculously biased, and presentist article, and lock it? Deleting the phrase "that prehistoric Britons were black," would be a start.2601:982:4200:A6C:3993:3DDC:4EF:4F37 (talk) 01:04, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

This is upsetting

Though I understand Paul is a controversial figure during this time in election season, labeling him a “white supremacist” is conpletely ignorant and crude. Just because a 2 (incredibly biased) media outlet’s opinion article claims he is a white supremacist (which he is not) does not make it so. Its fine if you add a section on this page citing the controversies, but straight up labeling him as a “white nationalist” or “white supremacist” is just pure lunacy. Thank you,

New wikipedia member -Magnus Brene

Magnumb22 (talk) 00:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Whether or not you believe he's a white supremacist is irrelevant. Reliable sources call him one, so Wikipedia calls him one. See also: WP:TRUTH --ChiveFungi (talk) 02:05, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 August 2018

Paul Nehlen is not a "white supremacist". This type of slander shouldn't be allowed. He has never said he was a white supremacist. While some people have opinions on his views that make them believe that's what Nehlen is, but this is not an official stance by Mr. Nehlan whatsoever. 47.220.177.122 (talk) 14:41, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: reliable sources call him a white supremacist, so Wikipedia calls him one, even if he does not identify as a white supremacist. Danski454 (talk) 14:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Who or what is Paul Nehlen?

There has been much WP:Edit warring and little WP:BRD on the lead (or lede) section. There seems to be a wide gap between what Nehlen says he is and when he walks like a duck. Some of the sources differ due to political leanings and some have been how Nehlen has publicly acted over time. Do we pick one of the extremes of the WP:RS or show all majority and significant minority views for the lead paragraph? What I see for sources of neo-nazism are not the first-string news and don't have strong support for the claim. Perhaps that can be later in the paragraph with more attribution to the source, like the last sentence: An April 2018 article from The Daily Beast declared…. I haven't found good sourcing of his pre-election views, so I don't know if it was a radicalization on social media. It could be a cry for attention as in bad publicity or Frank Noland. StrayBolt (talk) 03:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Dec 2017 turning point should be made clear; useful SPLC link

The "Views"section mixes events from before and during/after Nehlen's coming out in Dec 2017 as an anti-Semite (and/or white nationalist). I think the SPLC page summarizes it well, with links to several sources, and would be a decent guide to reorganizing the Views section to convey the crux of what happened: sometime in December, Nehlen publicly crossed a point of no return and became persona non grata.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/paul-nehlen

"Nehlen announced his second campaign for Congress in the summer of 2017. He appeared on stage with Bannon in support of Roy Moore in December 2017, but shortly thereafter, his formal connections to the Republican party collapsed in dramatic fashion."

73.89.25.252 (talk) 21:53, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

"Douglass Mackey" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Douglass Mackey has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 21 § Douglass Mackey until a consensus is reached. wbm1058 (talk) 17:01, 21 March 2023 (UTC)