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Talk:Penny (British decimal coin)/GA1

< Talk:Penny (British decimal coin)
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Bungle in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 5 years ago46 comments2 people in discussion
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Reviewer: Bungle (talk · contribs) 19:34, 1 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

@TheMagikCow: I will do a review of this. Will get feedback at some point within the next week, maybe even sooner. Bungle (talk • contribs) 19:34, 1 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Thanks very much! TheMagikCow (T) (C) 19:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Review

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I reviewed each section in turn and have made my comments relating specifically to each section.

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):  
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):  
    b (citations to reliable sources):  
    c (OR):  
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):  
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):  
    b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  

Overall:
Pass/Fail:  

  ·   ·   ·  


Lead

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  • "usually simply known as a penny" - this seems like a redundant phrase given the coin is a penny? It's not a nickname or an alternate alias.
  • "equalling one one-hundredth" - why not just "one-hundredth"?
  • Do we need to say the symbol when it is already identified in the opening sentence?
  • Maybe further rephrase the legal tender part on paragraph 2 as it's still has close resemblance to the ref

History

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  • The first paragraph adds unnecessary bloat as it relates predominantly to the wider coinage debate of the time, not specifically for the coin pertaining to this article. Perhaps condense to a briefer overview.
  • What differed between the 1969 and 1971 currency acts which impacted on the new penny?
  • Don't need leading zeros on the numerics (i.e. 3.56400 is 3.564)
  • "2000 million decimal 1p and 2p coins were stuck.." - The ref suggests it was 2000 million in total for all decimal coins, which included the half-penny, 5p and 10p too? Ref doesn't note this figure exclusive for 1p and 2p only.
  • "depicts the Queen wears the George IV State Diadem" - typo perhaps, should be "wearing.."?

Manufacture

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Do we need this section? In the same way that an article about a car model doesn't have a generic section about how its made. This section doesn't have anything unique or specific to the penny coin, so why is it there?

Looking back, I agree with this. I have removed the section, and placed where the coin is made in another section. TheMagikCow (T) (C) 16:56, 3 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Status

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Legal tender

  • Maybe as "United Kingdom" is written in full previously, then it should be used instead of the abbreviated form "UK"?
    • Changed.
  • The legal tender section also seems a bit generic and maybe could be condensed. The last line about claims is also probably unnecessary.
  • "A shopkeeper, for example, is not under any obligation to accept 1p coins for payment" - at all, or just for payments over 20p? Seems a bit contradictory, as you can't say it's legal up to 20p but that shopkeepers are not under obligation to accept pennies for any amount?
The point here is that legal tender is pretty relevant to everyday life. A shopkeeper does not have to accept 1p coins at all (for any amount). The common misconception is that just because something is legal tender, a shopkeeper has to accept it for payment. TheMagikCow (T) (C) 19:57, 2 September 2019 (UTC)Reply
It's a valid point, but is it also somewhat moot? Shopkeepers can accept or decline any currency or any denomination of currency not just limited to pennies (i.e. the statement used can apply to any coin, denomination or banknote?). I guess it's now short enough (as above) that it doesn't diverge too much so it's not something i'd take any further issue with. Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:23, 2 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Speculation

  • "subject of media speculation for some time" - "some time" feels more like writer's own opinion/understanding, but this is vague and unhelpful to understand how long it may have been under consideration for.
  • "It has been reported that in 2015" - maybe "It was reported in 2015.."?
  • "This was allegedly vetoed by Prime Minister.." - "allegedly"? The reference and indeed others seem quite clear he definitely did object, rather than it being an allegation.
  • There is inconsistent use of "then", which is currently used before Chancellor (when referring to Osborne) but not in the same way for Hammond or indeed Cameron, who are also former role holders of Chancellor and PM respectively. Need to standardise the prefix.
  • "because of the political risk" - this could be elaborated
  • "A Bank of England report.." - a bit of a stretch saying it's a BoE report? Seems like a blog/informal conclusion by analysts. Can this be checked and clarified if so?
    • It is a blog managed by the Bank of England and written by Bank staff, but not promoting the official view of the BoE. I have changed the wording to reflect this - how does it look? TheMagikCow (T) (C) 16:30, 3 September 2019 (UTC)Reply
  • "estimated that 60% of copper coins are only spent once, before being removed from circulation" - this ref which is used in the article suggests they leave the cash cycle to be saved or "binned", which may be a better explanation then saying "removed from circulation", as coins being stored somewhere long-term are not being "removed" from circulation as such. Also worth noting that 8% are believed to be disposed of.
  • "as to mint £500m of copper coins each year" - can we be clear this is both 1p and 2p and not just the "copper coins" that are specifically 1p, which may be an erroneous intepretation?
  • "and that they would be used for 'years to come'" - this makes it seem like Hammond himself made this remark, but it was the official Treasury stance (Hammond was more keen to scrap them). Should this be clearer?

Value

  • Can you clarify where on the reference used for the "Value" table regarding previous coin real-terms value this data is taken from?
    • Full information about the calculator data can be found at this link [1] in the 'How we created our calculator' section. Data was ONS for the more recent years and uses academic research for the years further back. TheMagikCow (T) (C) 16:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

References

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  • Oxford ref for pence now points to lexico.com, so update this
  • Hansard ref has erroneous "www" in it, which doesn't direct to the page when included

Mintages

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Additional

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  • This article from the BBC (among others) suggests a revised estimate of 10.5 billion 1p coins in circulation, as well as none being produced last year (2018) for the first time since 1972. Is it worth exploring both points further, especially the latter on the back of recent calls for withdrawal?
  • This ref suggests only 12% of prices are now ending in ".99p" and may relate usefully to the prose about withdrawal and potential impact
  • A poll in 2016 suggested 47% thought the 1p should be scrapped; is this worth noting in the article, particularly withdrawal/future section?
  • This ref notes some examples of businesses/reasons to retain low-value currency - worth exploring that further/expanding upon/including? Whilst the article notes they will be used for "years to come", it would be good to include some reasons why this is and why the decision to scrap wasn't pursued.
  • This article notes some interesting information relating to the withdrawal of the half-penny coin and concerns public had which didn't materialise. May be something useful that relates to the current 1p which finds itself in a similar position?
    • Would suggest that there may be a similar outcome, without that suggestion in the source be against WP:SYNTH? TheMagikCow (T) (C) 17:06, 7 September 2019 (UTC)Reply
      • I see why you think that and I wasn't suggesting adding prose based on personal interpretation or indeed guesswork as to what may or may not materialise; rather, that it can't be assumed or expected that withdrawal would have an impact on pricing, given the country has been in a similar situation before and prices moved in both directions. I found this after the one about the number of products ending in .99p and thought there was a possible correlation between the two. As above though, it's not a deal-breaker and this section was more about seeing if there was other relevant information that could further enhance the detail already being presented. Bungle (talk • contribs) 20:40, 9 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Closing notes

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@TheMagikCow: Interesting read. The coin has been in the media a bit more recently due to the speculation and discussions surrounding its status and potential future removal. I have made a number of observations and suggestions as above. In particular and as I alluded to above, I'd like to see some expansion on the withdrawal/future speculation section, perhaps looking at current usage for the penny and impact if it were withdrawn, as I feel there is some useful information lacking in the article which can easily be found and included. Happy to hold this for a week and see how things are progressing around that time, or even before. Bungle (talk • contribs) 19:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Thanks so much for the detailed review - I am working now to address these points. TheMagikCow (T) (C) 19:35, 2 September 2019 (UTC)Reply
@TheMagikCow: Can you advise if you believe you have made your final edit on this ready for another review-check or do you plan on any further additions/changes? Bungle (talk • contribs) 20:40, 9 September 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Bungle: Yes, I am happy for another review-check, if that is ok. Many thanks! TheMagikCow (T) (C) 20:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

GA passed

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@TheMagikCow: I made a copyedit just before to make a few changes and pick up a few minor prose issues you overlooked, but nothing major. Happy that my points have been addressed and to promote to GA, well done. Bungle (talk • contribs) 17:38, 10 September 2019 (UTC) @Bungle: Thank you so much for all of your hard work on this review, much appreciated. TheMagikCow (T) (C) 18:22, 10 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

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