Talk:Pentti Linkola

Too many humans

I seem to recall that either the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal reported that Linkola supports genocide in order to reduce human population to what he considers acceptable levels. Is that correct? Michael Hardy 01:54, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My impression is that although Linkola has said as his opinion that genocide may work as a means to control overpopulation, he has never actually encouraged anybody to kill anyone. I don't think genocide is mentioned in his "plan of action" that he describes in his latest book, either. Must check.

I'm really planning to update this Linkola page asap, but have been avoiding it mainly out of lazyness but also because I don't seem to find a way to describe the apparent contradiction between his seemingly empathetic and humane character and his cruel ideas. Maybe he's just a bit too much a guru for me, too. Habiibi 20 April 2006

I found some of his quotes about the promotion of genocide: http://www.kolumbus.fi/jik/sarastus/penaintr.htm

Photo

I've uploaded a photo of Linkola in the Commons but I leave it for others to decide if its too low quality to be included here. Nikke 08:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I added the picture. It adds to the value of article and the quality in my opinion is good enough. Habiibi 08:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Citations and Style

I think we really need some citations here. I just tagged article "unreferenced".

I also think the style in many places is poor and unscientific. Sure he is a sociable person and has been described as a good conversationist and having a good sense of humour but maybe we could describe this some other way than saying that "he has many friends"? Habiibi 14:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Not NPOV

Saying Linkola has been accused of ecofascism has the very clear implication that this system of thought is in some way criminal or verifiably wrong. I consider such an implication repugnant.

--220.236.238.103 17:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

If it's factually correct that someone is accusing him of that, that doesn't imply he's guilty. I do think, however, that it's best to say who is accusing him. Besides, I don't think there's any criminal code that defines an offense called "ecofascism". Genocide, on the other hand, is a criminal offense. Michael Hardy 03:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't even see why it needs to be phrased in terms of "some have accused": the "eco-" and "-fascism" parts of the word are very well-defined, and I would further claim, verifiably applicable. Fascism: I quote from Merriam-Webster, "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti)...that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition". So...I'll repeat myself: I don't see why it needs to be phrased in terms of "some have accused". It can be put more simply, e.g., "Linkola is an ecofascist". -69.47.186.226 05:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Because this is an encyclopedia, not an editorial. -- Atamasama 23:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

One isn't usually "accused" of being e.g. liberal or democrat so I guess Linkola is only claimed to be an ecofascist, not accused (although individual reader might consider such claims as serious and derogating accusations). I recall that Linkola has also commented on being labelled as such in some interview, can't however remember anything more specific. 62.78.227.13 (talk) 00:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

"A button I could press"

I found a fairly reliable article, written by Lyndon LaRouche adherents but referencing The Wall Street Journal Europe, describing Linkola's thoughts on overpopulation. Here's the paragraph I composed:

In 1994 Linkola was featured on the front page of The Wall Street Journal Europe. He said he was for a radical reduction in the world population and was quoted as saying about a future world war, "If there were a button I could press, I would sacrifice myself without hesitating, if it meant millions of people would die."

• Burdman, Mark; Moore, Roger (18 July 1997). "Prince Philip's Malthusians launch New Age killer cults". Executive Intelligence Review. 24 (29): 24.

To me, it seems that this appearance of Linkola was widely seen and should be mentioned. I don't think it is too much of a problem that Executive Intelligence Review is published by LaRouche. I expect that they got the quote and the context correct. Binksternet (talk) 01:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Eugenics

Could someone give an exact citation where and how Linkola has advocated eugenics. There is reference for the english language translation of his book but just now I have acces only to the finnish language original and cannot find the right page.--Urjanhai (talk) 08:59, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

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"Ecofascist" guru?

I find the passage in the lede "A guru for the ecofascist militant tendency in environmental ethics" highly problematic. Even though this material has a citation, there is no evidence that Linkola has ever described himself as so-called "ecofascist". Fascism implies he was an extreme nationalist, as fascism is essentially authoritarian nationalism. It is my understanding that Linkola had no love for his fellow Finns. Not only that, but his praise of leftist regimes and left-wing militant groups like the RAF also indicate he was not an ideological fascist, "eco" or otherwise, as does his praise of Islamic terrorist attacks on the capitalist West. He prioritized protecting the environment over human life, this does not necessarily make one a fascist. Eco-authoritarianism seems a more apt description of Linkola's ideology, given his apparent lack of extreme ultra-nationalist sentiment. If this is to be included in the article, it needs more context than it is given, and probably doesn't belong in the lede as it exists now, especially given there is no mention of this in the body.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 03:45, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@C.J. Griffin: I agree. It's a term used only by critics, and Linkola did not hold any neo-Nazi views like some people affliated with it do. If he was widely considered an ecofascist, it's highly unlikely that the imcumbent foreign minister Pekka Haavisto and environment minister Krista Mikkonen -- both from the Green League which is the most pro-multicultural party in Finland - would have lauded Linkola for his environmental work in their condolences. --Pudeo (talk) 15:18, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, ecofascist guru. It's a term used only by critics it's highly unlikely that Fascism implies he was an extreme nationalist, Probably, but we are talking about ecofascism, not fascism. Ecofascism is a theoretical political model in which an authoritarian government would require individuals to sacrifice their own interests to the "organic whole of nature" (instead of the "Nation"). Have you actually consulted what ecofascism is [1]? "Jorian Jenks, Knut Hamsum and Pentti Linkola can be described as ecofascist with little dispute.". Then Wikipedia editors could be grasping at straws over their personal opinions of what it ecofascism is and what it is not, but that should be largely irrelevant to the Wikipedia mainspace. Why do you assume ecofascism requires nationalism? If you don't provide sources for your assertions, that's just your opinions and prejudices against reliable sources.--Asqueladd (talk) 16:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

A lot of source don't call him an ecofascist. Do you expect a source which explicitly denies that, or just a source that calls him something else, like a deep ecologist? --Pudeo (talk) 12:01, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

This is the point, and the ones that do call him an ecofascist appear to contain glaring omissions on who and what he actually supports. The author of the linked source above which asserts that Linkola can be described as an ecofascist "with little dispute" accuses him of making racist, pro-Hitler and anti-semitic statements, presumably by praising elements of the Holocaust, and lumps him in with individuals who were actually members of outright fascist organizations like Jorian Jenks, a member of the British Union of Fascists. The problem with this is that unlike Jenks, to my knowledge Linkola has no ties to actual fascist organizations. More importantly, it fails to mention that Linkola has also praised authoritarians and militants of the Left and their actions, such as Stalin and his purges, Pol Pot and the killing fields, and members of the West German Red Army Faction. He has also said that Dresden is so overcrowded that another "vaccination from the sky" would be a good thing. I can't imagine a genuine Nazi or fascist making such a statement. In addition, he praised the 9-11 attackers for eliminating what he sees as the "wealthy, busy, environmentally damaging and world-devouring portion of mankind." In this piece, titled "Bull's Eye" and written in 2001, he is attacking the wealthy (or as he says "the priests and priestesses of the supreme God of this age: the Dollar") and the capitalist system. In this broader context, it is not so much that he makes "pro-Hitler" and "anti-semitic" statements because he praised the Holocaust (for reducing the population. I have seen no evidence of Linkola's alleged anti-semitism) which the author of that piece focuses on exclusively in order to erroneously (in my view) put Linkola in the same category as actual fascists and Nazi sympathizers who hold strong pro-environmentalist views, but provocative misanthropic statements on historical events which killed huge numbers of people in the context of (in Linkola's view) an overpopulated world today which is directly contributing to the destruction of nature. He clearly sees authoritarian and terroristic means and depopulation through violence as necessary evils to fix these perceived problems, or at least he makes such statements to be provocative and perhaps to vent his rage at Homo sapiens for the way they have treated the natural world.

And Pudeo, it might be a good idea to include the statements from Pekka Haavisto and Krista Mikkonen in the article. Thoughts?--C.J. Griffin (talk) 14:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I added a couple of sentences about the comments on his passing by the sitting ministers. Though it could also belong in a "reception" section if there was one. --Pudeo (talk) 19:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I have created a short reception section by splitting off content from the other sections. If the ecofascist label is disputed and requires discussion, it could be covered there. Hrodvarsson (talk) 23:39, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I believe the best way to go would be replacing the said sentence with something along the lines "His views have been sometimes described as ecofascist". --Tiiliskivi (talk) 20:24, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

This is certainly preferable to how it is currently written.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 06:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)