Talk:People from Ibiza (song)

Requested move 28 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 07:50, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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People from Ibiza → People from Ibiza (song) – the clear primary topic for "People from Ibiza" is people from the island of Ibiza (see e.g. this Gbooks search, which concentrates reliable sources). Since we don't have an article on the demographics of Ibiza, this title "People from Ibiza" should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Ibiza. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:17, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

• @BrownHairedGirl: you've made an invalid RM so currently I have no option other than oppose, as you proposed to move the name of this page, the song, to Ibiza, which of course is not empty but obviously also the primary of such a name. --Gonnym (talk) 13:26, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• This request makes no sense. BrownHairedGirl, please slow down and inspect your edits more carefully. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:28, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• Sorry, Gonnym & Jonesey95: clerical error, now fixed. The rename target should be People from Ibiza (song), to which I moved the page before it was reverted by another editor. I was distracted by being fed up, and screwed up the nomination. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:32, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

• I don't think a dab is needed when there is no other existing article for this one to be confused with. A hatnote at the top like
  For a list of notable people from Ibiza, see Ibiza#People.
  would suffice. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:06, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

• Jonesey95, the lack of another standalone article is not a relevant criterion. The policy os explicit:

  The fact that an article has a different title is not a factor in determining whether a topic is primary

  .

--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:20, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

• The guideline (not policy) says that, but there is no article about people from Ibiza. So far, there is only a 63-word, two-sentence paragraph listing a few notable people from the island. Unless someone wants to develop a real article about the Ibizan people from possible sources, I don't see much of a future in the topic or a reason to create a dab title for this song.

As for the title "People from Ibiza" and WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY, I don't see anything in the Ngram Viewer, so we may be left with a Google search, which shows this single in all of the top hits except for one, which is a link to Category:People from Ibiza. That seems to say that this song is the primary topic. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:35, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95, you're missing the point. True, we currently have very little in the article Ibiza about its people. But there is nothing in policy or the guideline to support your notion that the primacy of a topic is determined (even in part) by the scale of en.wp coverage. Primacy is a property of the topic, not the article ... and the history of people on island which they have inhabited for thousands of years is massively more significant than a song from nearly 40 years ago.

Your use of Google is wrong. You did a general Google search (which includes user-generated content and other unreliable sources), instead of doing what I did, which is search in reliable sources. Per WP:COMMONNAME, titling decisions follow reliable sources. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:51, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

• Support moving People from Ibiza to People from Ibiza (song). It is no stretch at all to say that an article titled "People from..." should be redirected to whichever article covers people who are from the named location. In fact, we have about a hundred such redirect titles already, with, for example, People from Adelaide redirecting to List of people from Adelaide, People from Madrid redirecting to List of people from Madrid, People from Guam redirecting to Demographics of Guam, People from Nancy redirecting to Nancy, France#Native sons and daughters and People from Oxford serving as a disambiguation page listing various articles on people from places called "Oxford". Based on these precedents, "People of Ibiza" should redirect to whichever article is most directly about people who are from Ibiza; out of current possibilities the target should be Ibiza#People. I would not disambiguate (and will actually propose to move People from Oxford to follow the primary topic of Oxford). BD2412 T 16:33, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• Support moving People from Ibiza to People from Ibiza (song). There is Category:People from Ibiza. Claiming that 'People from Ibiza' refers to a song rather than inhabitants of an island seems to me rather a stretch. Oculi (talk) 17:58, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:OVERPRECISION. There is no other article using the title, so no need to disambiguate the title. This article gets about 8 views per day, fewer than some other articles in its category, so virtually no one is landing here expecting anything other than the song. If absolutely necessary, just add a hatnote pointing to Ibiza; not necessary but better than adding a redirect hatnote to Ibiza pointing back here. Station1 (talk) 18:48, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
  • The test of a primary topic is the primacy of the topic, not whether another article uses the same title. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:12, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
    • I agree with Jonesey95 above. There's rarely a need to disambiguate an article title that is not in conflict with another title. Yes, there are rare cases when one topic is the primary topic for more than one title (e.g. Beethoven), but this case is about as far from that as you can get. If you really think it necessary, just add a hatnote pointing to Ibiza, so that we don't inconvenience the majority who want and expect the song. Station1 (talk) 22:37, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose There is nothing else titled "People of Ibiza", so a hatnote is appropriate. I don't believe in deliberately creating titles that are unnecessary disambiguations. If there's a guideline or policy that recommends do so, I'm happy to learn of it. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:04, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Justin: there is explicit and long-standing guidance on this, at WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT:

    The fact that an article has a different title is not a factor in determining whether a topic is primary

    . A song which was a minor hit nearly 40 years ago is not primary over the plain English meaning of demographic topic. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

    BrownHairedGirl, Thanks. Not changing my !vote as I still believe that's the correct course of action but it's instructive to have this documentation. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:53, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nomination, BD2412 and Oculi. An exception might have been posited if the song had risen to some form of iconic status in the English-speaking world but, as matters stand, BD2412's proposal of redirecting "People from Ibiza" to Ibiza#People seems to present the most apt resolution. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:10, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• Support The majority of people are probably looking for the far more common reason to search this. Move, and then re-target the redirect to Ibiza#People. Moving this to (song) means people can easily find it by search, and this should not confuse the reader. Not moving it will confuse those looking for statistics on people from Ibiza and they will hit a dead end.Lurking shadow (talk) 13:41, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
• Support but keep the current title as a redirect to the song, and add a hatnote to Ibiza#People. This is enough to make it clear to readers what the article is about. Otherwise I agree with Station1. feminist (talk) 04:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Zone Toons information does not seem relevant

In 2021, Zone Toons created a "Merry Merry Christmas (And A Happy New Horizons)" music video based on Sandy Marton's Christmas re-mix.

I'm unsure how this fits with the rest of the article. I don't think the mention of what video a song was featured in qualifies to be in this section. Snickerdoooodle (talk) 16:35, 25 February 2022 (UTC)