Talk:Persecution of Yazidis by Kurds

This article is very misleading

First of all, the title of this article is just misleading. Persecution of Yazidis by "Kurds".. It is evident that the animosity is more about Muslim tribes and leaders persecuting the Yazidis based on beliefs which then triggered these acts against Yazidis. I mean it should have made it obvious when you read "Then they gave them the option to convert to Islam or to be killed." The language spoken by the Yazidis is Kurdish, the Yazidis's are ethnically Kurdish. The only people to conveniently try to ignore the linguistic and ethnic match are just simply trying to make a divide between the two for obviously something.. Wikipedia should have never allowed such a page to carry on. If I post these counter arguments and debunk this all the core of this article is going to be meaningless. It's like an article talking about a man walking his dog, but the truth is it never happened.

Looking at the acts and persecutions committed against Yazidis, both the Kurdish emir's Mohammed Pasha Rawanduz & Bedir Khan Beg have three things in common, being under the command of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, both being Muslim and their cause and motives being exactly the same, yet considering there was no Kurdish state, this article brands them as being Kurdish somehow proposing it was a Kurdish thing, but today I wonder what kind of definition a Yazidi would have if they converted..

We can look at it this way. What happens when Yazidi converts to Islam, are they now back to being a Kurd, because they're Muslim and Kurdish? Or do they become Iraqi or something? What happens when that Yazidi is in Turkish territory? Are they now just plain old Turkish? What ethnicity are Yazidis if they aren't Kurdish, which makes it interesting to know if you were to argue they're not Kurdish, but this Kurdish emir wasn't Turkish or Ottoman, he was Kurdish! Convenient.

The KRG spends the largest amount of effort in trying to rescue captured Yazidis from ISIS. Why would the "Kurds" care to do that if the history is with persecuting them? https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/10855146-3f8d-4b38-b786-a778bb893d61 Who else is right now spending time looking for them like the Kurds are, while calling them their own. Khider Domle an actual Yazidi researcher stated that Yazidis are ‘one of the oldest Kurdish religions in the East.’ - 8 Domle. K. (2013) Yazidis: A Deep-Rooted Community in an Unstable Present. In Salloum, S. (2013) Minorities

The genocide of Yazidis during the same time of the genocide of Armenians was mostly about getting rid of none Muslims in Anatolia and neighboring regions, again clearly more involving Turkish atrocities. That is the only reason why Kurds in general were even spared. When evolved into a nationalistic thing after the creation of the Turkish republic, that's when the Kurds faced the same treatment. One thing that becomes obvious is the desire to cleanse the region of none Muslims and the orders were clearly not coming from Kurds. Of course the Kurds took part and did a terrible thing by carrying out these acts in the first place, but this is rewriting history.

I think the best thing to do is be factually accurate with the persecutions and post them under Ottoman Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis#Under_the_Ottoman_Empire — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justvalley (talk • contribs) 23:10, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

False Info

Majority of these massacres were made by Muslims and not Kurds. KhaledWalidd (talk) 12:12, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

The muslims of the region are mainly Kurds, so the massacres were also done by the kurds.

Proposed move

I propose to move this article to 'Persecution of Yazidis by Muslims'. Yazidis are Kurds, and the reason for the persecution has been religious, not ethnic, so the current title is misleading. Konli17 (talk) 00:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

It is controversial whether Yazidis are Kurds or not. And the massacres were committed by Kurdish Muslims. Such as the Kurdish princes Bedirkhan Beg and Mohammed Pasha Rawanduz. 79.111.27.68 (talk) 03:25, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

As this controversy exists, why choose to identify the persecutors by their ethnicity rather than their religion? Konli17 (talk) 12:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Because not all Muslims were involved in the persecution. This article is all about the Muslim Kurds. This is also shown and documented in the article. The sources clearly speak of Kurds. The word Kurds is used throughout the sources. Here is another source that is not used in this article. "Kurds have been mortal enemies of the Yazidis."[1] In addition, not all evidence suggests that the Kurds persecuted the Yazidis because of their religion. Some Yazidi tribes who converted to Islam only assumed Kurdish identity after the conversion. Then they were recognized as Kurds by their Kurdish neighbors and no longer as Yazidis.[2] You probably haven't read the whole article, otherwise you would also see in the Modern times section that this is about Kurds. The article is short, however, and it could be expanded. There is much more information on this topic. 79.111.27.68 (talk) 15:05, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, I take your point. But as many Yazidis regard themselves/are regarded as Kurds, the current title still doesn't work. Now I'm thinking more along the lines of moving this one to 'Persecution of Yazidis by Muslim Kurds' or 'Persecution of Yazidis by Kurdish Muslims', and creating another article, Persecution of Yazidis by Muslims, which would include this material as well as the more recent persecution from the Islamic State, and whatever else we can find. Konli17 (talk) 22:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I think you are not interested in improving the article at all, but only in replacing the word Kurds with Muslims. This article does not deal with the identity of the Yazidis, but only the persecution by Kurds. Yazidis article already includes a section on the identity of the Yazidis. 79.111.27.68 (talk) 22:56, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning. While I still want the word Muslim in the title, I'm happy to retain Kurd. Konli17 (talk) 01:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was not merged. Alphadon (talk) 11:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

---

I agree, it's not ethnic but religious. Therefore the title "Persecution of Yazidis by Muslims" would be correct. Btw, Yazidis are known as Kurdish people, this is still true even if throughout the course of recent history Armenian nationalists (Garnik Asatrian is one of the well known ones) & government tried to emphasize the Yazidi religion in order to undermine the Kurdish identity of Kurds in Armenia. If Muslim and Yazidi Kurds were to unite against Armenia, this would pose more of a threat than when these groups feel they are not of the same descent. (divide and rule policy), the same has been happening to the Kurds in Turkey. The Turkish state realized that the Kurds won't assimilate, so they divide them, e.g. claiming Zazas are not Kurds. Unsurprizingly, Garnik Asatrian supports this movement as well, because of his great Armenia dream. Unfortunately he (his team Arakelova and co.) is not a reliable source, but is used in each article about Kurds.

The most important part about the article is that it was in the time of tribes, not of nations. Bedir Khan Beg and Muhammad Pasha Rawanduz fought against muslim Kurds as well. So will we write an article named; "Persecution of Muslim Kurds by Kurds"?--Gomada (talk) 18:10, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, because: There is a disagreement on whether Yazidis are a religious sub-group of Kurds or a distinct ethnoreligious group, among scholars and Kurds and Yazidis themselves. Alphadon (talk) 21:50, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Btw, this article is not about identity. Besides, everything in this article is sourced. There are a lot of sources in this article and all of them speak about the Persecution of Yazidis by Kurds or Kurdish tribes. Alphadon (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you (Alphadon) decide by yourself to end the proposal? Seriously? :)--Gomada (talk) 11:00, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

@Gomada: I've merged the two per the reason Muslim Kurds were attacking Yazidis. Nothing in Alphadon's argument made sense. --Semsûrî (talk) 23:10, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Removal of sourced content

I have restored the content with many sources that a very relevant. It should not be removed again. I will restored it. regards Oziarak (talk) 22:02, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Ozariak, there are good sources you are right, but I guess for another article. The campaigns were for religious motives as can be seen in the sources provided. The content of the article can be merged into Persecution of Yazidis, if not already present there. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:29, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

I have thought the article was about Kurds persecuting Yazidi, but already in the lead it states muslim Kurds have persecuted Yazidi. Therefore restoring redirect. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:38, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Well, this article is about Kurds who are also Muslims and who persecuted the Yazidis. Also the Kurdish leaders Bedir Khan Beg and Muhammad Pasha of Rawanduz were Kurds and also Muslims. Than this page should move to another title. 194.99.20.6 (talk) 21:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC)