Talk:Persian alphabet (old page history)

Computer-related info (incl. Unicode)

I think that computer-related information (incl. the word "Unicode" and the Unicode names of the letters) should not appear in the (first) main section of an article on a writing system. Just the names used by those who speak Persian should be given (or the standard English names if there are such). There should be a Unicode section as well, it should make references to the main section.--Imz 22:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

About letter ʼalif maqṣūra

I think, that letter alif maqsura should not be presented here. One is not used in Persian at all, in my opinion.

Somebody just copied and pasted the entirety of both gray tables from the Arabic counterpart. IMNSHO both tables need to be significantly revised to reflect the characters actually used in Persian, as well as the names and IPA values of the letters (eg. [ʕ] / [ʔˁ]; < ^c >, <ḫ> ). --jonsafari 01:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

RE: About letter ʼalif maqṣūra

Your are naming the Persian Alphabet your way (Arabic way).The last letter in Persian only LOOKS the same as alif maqsura but in Persian it is called "Ye". alif maqsura is NOT presented in the main table. the last letter presented is "ye".

The ʼalif maqṣūra, commonly using Unicode 0x0649 (ى) in Arabic, is sometimes replaced in Persian or Urdu, with Unicode 0x06CC (ی), called "Farsi Yeh". This is appropriate to its pronunciation in those languages. The glyphs are identical in isolated and final form (ﻯ ﻰ), but not in initial and medial form, in which the Farsi Yeh gains two dots below (ﻳ ﻴ) while the ʼalif maqṣūra has neither an initial nor a medial form.

Kaf vs Keheh

In the row of the alphabet chart concerning the letter Kaf, I'm seeing the base form and initial/medial/final presentation forms for letter Keheh (as named in the Unicode standard). Keheh's base form is 06A9. Kaf's is 0643. So, I'm wondering which is incorrect -- the letter named for that row, or the forms chosen for presentation. Auros 21:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think, upon further investigation, that it may be the Unicode Standard that's wrong -- I'm not sure why they named that codepoint Keheh, because other sources in Wikipedia and elsewhere appear to say that that's just what the Persian Kaph/Kaf looks like. Auros 21:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Urdu alphabet

Hi. I'm trying to spell a couple of words in Urdu and I have the Devanagari versions. I've looked through several dictionaries and all of them give me different forms for those words. One of the words is anpa.rh (uneducated, illiterate) and this is the Devanagari spelling अनपढ. The Urdu spelling that I found in some dictionaries is انپڑھ. What puzzles me is that Platts' dictionary uses the letter ڙ (rreh with four dots). The spelling this way would be انپڙھ. I've not been able to find this letter in alphabets for Urdu (although it is in use for Sindhi) listed on any website. Can someone tell me if this letter is in use or not and what the correct form should be for this word? Thanks. --Dijan 20:34, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the four-dotted ray is not correct. But since I'm not a native speaker, I can't really say. I have never come across this four-dotted ray in any material, which is why I'm so sure it's not in use. But I may be wrong. Mar de Sin ^{Speak up!} 17:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Four dotted reh is probably a Sindhi letter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.75.246.80 (talk) 05:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Addition of Urdu alphabet

I'm trying to create an article on the Urdu alphabet. Although is similar to the Persian alphabet and it is cover ok here, it still deserves it's own page.
Reasons:

• Extra letters for retroflex sounds
• Taa marbuta not used in Urdu
• Nastaliq is the most common style for Urdu, while in Persian Naskh is as common/more common
• Different forms of "h", very important distinction.

Mar de Sin ^{Speak up!} 18:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

That's cool. The impression I get is that this article specifically covers the application of the Perso-Arabic script to modern Persian specifically, while the Perso-Arabic script article covers the extension of the Arabic alphabet to various languages east of the Arabic-speaking areas. I while ago I added the Urdu section, since I thought this article was about the Perso-Arabic script, but since we have a separate article covering the Perso-Arabic script and the Urdu alphabet specifically, I'll be happy to remove it, since it's not applicable to this article. Good luck with the Urdu alphabet article. –jonsafari 19:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Merge

Oppose - As far as I can tell the Persian alphabet article is about the primary means of writing the Persian language, and only the Persian language. The Perso-Arabic script article is about the general Arabic script orthography as it has been extended to Persian, Urdu, Pashto, and other languages nearby. Admittedly, the Perso-Arabic script article does not do a good job of expressing this distinction very well, but merging the two would not maintain a world-wide view of the the Perso-Arabic script, nor adequately describe the specific nuances of the primary writing system used for Persian. –jonsafari 23:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I think these issues can be explained in this article. See Arabic script and Cyrillic script which are redirected to Arabic alphabet and Cyrillic alphabet. The distinctions that you have mentioned can be expressed in a section of this article. Jahangard 17:44, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

You might notice at the top of the Arabic alphabet article is a tag which states that the article might not represent a worldwide view. This is exactly because speakers of many other languages which use the Arabic script, eg. Urdu, Pashto, Persian, Hausa, etc., feel that the article centers too much on the Arabic language. That is, the article confuses the Arabic alphabet and the Arabic script. The latter is the general abjad writing system, and the former is the specific implementation of the Arabic script as it applies to the Arabic language. The same issue arises with the Perso-Arabic script vs. the Persian alphabet. Merging the two would likewise result in problems with not representing an international viewpoint of the Perso-Arabic script, and/or not delving into enough detail as to the specific implementation of the script as it applies to the Persian language. –jonsafari 03:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Nasta'liq

The article claims that "The Persian alphabet is commonly written in a calligraphic style known as Nasta'liq". This isn't generally true; & I'm not sure what the point of the statement is anyway.

Yes, shop signs & slogans are often written in Nasta'liq, but the general statement quoted above is pretty misleading IMO. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 21:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Initial, Medial, Final

May I suggest that we re-order the columns for the different letter positions from "Initial, Medial, Final" to "Final, Medial, Initial" as it is in the Arabic alphabet article? 206.176.113.70 20:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

IPA2

Please see the discussion at Talk:IPA2. Thanks. --Amir E. Aharoni 08:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Iranian Scouting

Can someone please render Aamaadeh Baash (Be Prepared), the Scout Motto, into Persian script? Thanks! Chris 03:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

so where is the first dal(د) in the word تشدید ? the د word is Medial form in the تشدید word but when i want to insert the Medial form of د in the edit mode i see it but when viewing in browser in is not seen. if you can at it. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.165.79.59 (talk) 12:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Updated section

I've spent some time making additions to the section of changes from Arabic writing system to Persian. Please make revisions if any of the information is incorrect or additional details can be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.75.246.80 (talk) 05:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Better table of letters

The table of letters over in the Arabic alphabet article looks a bit better organized than the one here. I'm thinking of bringing it over and modifying it to be specific to the Persian alphabet. Any suggestions? chet the gray (talk) 07:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Personally I think the table in the other article looks clunky, but that's just my 2 cents. BTW, what don't you like about the current table. The order of the columns? –jonsafari (talk) 21:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The current one doesn't give Unicode code points, for one. Also, I'm not sure why it needs to be sortable. —Chet Gray (talk) 04:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)