Talk:Peter (enslaved man)

plagiarism/copy+paste

Several lines of this article are lifted directly from the Harper's article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:72:0:9999:95DE:1A0F:B70B:4AAB (talk) 19:26, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Notability

Gordon was not a "Pivotal figure in exposing the brutality of slavery". He exposed only the brutality of one overseer. His role was as a propaganda tool.Royalcourtier (talk) 00:29, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

On the contrary, as the subject of this image he was indeed a notable figure. This is particularly true since multiple versions of the story were written at the time. Red Harvest (talk) 18:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

- Thank you Royalcourtier. Its not often marginalized, hard working slave overseers are given the benefit of the doubt in this new age. Thank you for defending those courageous souls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.237.190.65 (talk) 06:59, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Too narrow, likely incorrect in several particulars

I stumbled across this page while doing editing of "whipped slave/Peter" captions. If you research this more you will find various articles were written about Peter aka Gordon...some say he was "Peter Gordon". I've given some references to them on File:Cicatrices de flagellation sur un esclave.jpg talk page, but haven't fully explored the matter. In other sources Peter was a slave from Captain (as in private ship) John Lyons' 1,000 acre Washington, LA plantation. Lyons was killed at his plantation on Sept. 23, 1864 by Union soldiers from Morganza, LA. Red Harvest (talk) 18:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC) i dont think so Hgu42 (talk) 16:09, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Civil War Record

Could the soldier here and here be Gordon? Scewing (talk) 17:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I don't know, but from what I see those are not USCT units so I would guess not. If they prove to be USCT then it would be plausible. Red Harvest (talk) 09:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

I think the first link is referring to 1st Louisiana Native Guard (United States), an all black regiment Scewing (talk) 04:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

No, that link refers to a cavalry regiment and doesn't appear to be a predecessor or consolidated unit. Red Harvest (talk) 04:57, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, the database lists 24 records matches for Gordon, Peter. Scewing (talk) 19:40, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Is there no record at all of what became of Gordon/Peter after the Civil War?

reply to previous unsigned comment by Muzilon - As far as I can tell, I don't think it's even clear what happened to him after April 1863. Union-aligned media claimed he joined the USCT, but there's no clear evidence of this in other primary sources (muster rolls, regimental histories). If he was, in fact, a monolingual speaker of Louisiana French, that might have complicated record-keeping done primarily by speakers of American English from the Freedmen's Bureau, Census Bureau, etc.

jengod (talk) 21:39, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Errors in article?

The very first lien of the Harpers Ferry article states: "...the negro Gordon, who escaped from his master in Mississippi, and came into our lines at Baton Rouge..." Was he actually a slave in Mississippi or was it the Lyons plantation? Did Lyons take him to Mississippi and he escaped while traveling in or through Mississippi? I'm just trying to understand the source of linking Gordon to the Lyons family. Did they have an overseer named Artayou Carrier? That Carrier or Carriere surname is somewhat prominent in St. Landry Parish. Sf46 (talk) 16:07, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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"Notes" and "Bibliography" shouldn't be separated

"Notes" Are being misused as inline citations, without linking to the original source. The "bibliography" includes links to some of these sources, but they ought to be included as inline citations.

Much of the bibliography overlaps with the notes, they need to be combined. And "notes" needs to be renamed "citations." Moderngold (talk) 06:10, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Update: with these three edits, I have mostly addressed the issue by replacing references with their matching bibliography entry. However, there are still some issues:

• Two bibliography entries have no inline citations
• Inline citations might be misplaced (why is there three separate citations in three different places in Gordon's quote?)

Please note - I merely changed the formatting. I did not make sure whether references are used correctly, although I suspect many are not.

Moderngold (talk) 08:01, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

The bibliography includes: Silkenat, D 2014, '“A Typical Negro”: Gordon, Peter, Vincent Colyer, and the story behind slavery's most famous photograph', American Nineteenth Century History, vol. 15, no. 2, pp. 169-186. https://doi.org/10.1080/14664658.2014.939807

This 2014 academic investigation is fascinating - not least because it questions, contradicts and casts serious doubt on so much of the accepted story. Essential reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.242.151 (talk) 19:35, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I am not understanding your points about citation style. The references use {{cite web}}, {{cite book}}, etc. templates. The citations will vary depending upon the type of source... as they should. For instance, {{cite journal}} and {{cite magazine}} look different than {{cite book}}, well, unless the chapter parameter is used.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Murder of Owner...

John Lyons was killed September 23, 1864 at their Atchafalaya River plantation home. He was called out of his house in the middle of the night by a party of Federal soldiers from Morganza and murdered at his own front door

Ref: The Conduct of Federal Troops in Louisiana During the Invasions of 1863 and 1864 by Acadiana Press — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.242.151 (talk) 10:59, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Big blocks of quotes

This is not encyclopedic content to have three long quotes about photos of him, but it could be summarized into three or four sentences. Bring it here to the talk page to discuss.

!. Summarized in this edit.–CaroleHenson (talk) 04:56, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I enclose a picture taken by an artist here, from life, of a Negro's back, exhibiting the scars from an old whipping. Few sensation writers ever depicted worse punishments than this man must have received, though nothing in his appearance indicates any unusual viciousness—but on the contrary, he seems INTELLIGENT and WELL-BEHAVED. [Towle's emphasis]

—Dr. Samuel Knapp Towle, Surgeon, 30th Regiment of Massachusetts Volunteers, in a letter dated 16 April 1863 to William Johnson Dale, Surgeon-general of the State of Massachusetts. Dr. Towle was in charge of the 900-bed United States General Hospital, Baton Rouge in 1863.

2nd quote doesn't have a name (perhaps by the surgeon who wrote to his brother) or a source and 3. summarized here.–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:10, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

There has lately come to us, from Baton Rouge, the photograph of a former slave—now, thanks to the Union army, a freeman. It represents him in a sitting posture, his stalwart body bared to the waist, his fine head and intelligent face in profile, his left arm bent, resting upon his hip, and his naked back exposed to full view. Upon that back, horrible to contemplate! is a testimony against slavery more eloquent than any words. Scarred, gouged, gathered in great ridges, knotted, furrowed, the poor tortured flesh stands out a hideous record of the slave-driver's lash. Months have elapsed since the martyrdom was undergone, and the wounds have healed, but as long as the flesh lasts will this fearful impress remain. It is a touching picture, an appeal so mute and powerful that none but hardened natures can look upon it unmoved. However much men may depict false images, the sun will not lie. From such evidence as this there is no escape, and to see is to believe. Many, therefore, desired a copy of the photograph, and from the original numerous copies have been taken.

The surgeon of the First Louisiana regiment, (colored,) writing to his brother in the city, encloses this photograph, with these words:

I send you the picture of a slave as he appears after a whipping. I have seen, during the period I have been inspecting men for my own and other regiments, hundreds of such sights—so they are not new to me; but it may be new to you. If you know of any one who talks about the humane manner in which the slaves are treated, please show them this picture. It is a lecture in itself.

"—Picture of a Slave". The Liberator. Boston, Massachusetts. 12 June 1863. p. 2.

4. Put part of this in the article here–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

We received from Baton Rouge the photographic likeness of a slave's naked back, lacerated by the whip ... We look on the picture with amazement that cannot find words for utterance. Amazement at the cruelty which could perpetrate such an outrage as this; at the brutal folly, the stupid ignorance, that could permit such a piece of infatuation; at the absence not only of humane feeling, but of economical prudence of common sense, of ordinary intelligence, displayed in such frantic thoughtlessness. Among what sort of people are such things possible? ... This card-photograph should be multiplied by the hundred thousand, and scattered over the states. It tells the story in a way that even Mrs. Stowe cannot approach; because it tells the story to the eye. If seeing is believing—and it is in the immense majority of cases—seeing this card would be equivalent to believing things of the slave states which Northern men and women would move heaven and earth to abolish!

—Theodore Tilton, ed. (28 May 1863). "The Scourged Back". The Independent (New York). XV (756): 4.
Reprint: "The Scourged Back". The Liberator. Boston, Massachusetts. June 19, 1863. p. 1.

–CaroleHenson (talk) 04:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Summarizing quotes - work-in-progress.–CaroleHenson (talk) 04:56, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Reverted edit

I reverted an edit here because the title of the article is Gordon (slave) right now.

I do understand the point about not being a slave his entire life. I also feel that there may be a better way to differentiate Gordon than slave, perhaps "enslaved man" or something else.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:44, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Title issue, change parenthetical

I would be in favor of changing the parenthetical to "enslaved man". No human is a slave, but rather forced into slavery by violence. I see this title change as a small act of justice to Gordon's memory. I am in agreement with CaroleHenson . Hoyboy 1 (talk) 17:33, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

To officially weigh-in on the title change, that works for me.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:58, 22 April 2023 (UTC)