Talk:Petro Mohyla

Requested move 16 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus. and also withdrawn. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 02:05, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

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Petro Mohyla → Petru Movilă – Petru Movilă was a Romanian clergyman from a Romanian/Wallachian noble family. Petro Mohyla is the Slavic equivalent of his original Romanian name: Petru Movilă. Ninhursag3 (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

What was Petru Movilă's father's name? It was Simion Movilă, not Symion Mohyla. Since the family name didn't suddenly change from Movilă to Mohyla and Petru Movilă was born with the name Petru Movilă, not Petro Mohyla. His original Romanian name got Slavicized as he became the Metropolitan of Kiev, Galicia and all Rus'. Petro Mohyla is the Slavic equivalent of his original Romanian name: Petru Movilă. Ninhursag3 (talk) 07:32, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. This name was among those considered in the previous move request (Talk:Petro Mohyla/Archive 1#Requested move 9 February 2022), and failed to meet WP:COMMONNAME. (Any new move request should come with new evidence and an argument that refers to Wikipedia naming policies like WP:TITLE.)  —Michael Z. 18:17, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose, Petro Mohyla is the WP:COMMONNAME Marcelus (talk) 09:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Petro Mohyla/Petru Movilă isn't that known in the English-speaking world,WP:COMMONNAME is used for the wikipedia articles written in English. Petru Movilă is mostly unknown outside of Romania, Moldova, Ukraine and Russia. Therefore you can't compare it to internationally famous people like Mahatma Gandhi (not: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi), J. K. Rowling (not: Joanne Rowling), Bill Clinton (not: William Jefferson Clinton) etc. Ninhursag3 (talk) 09:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, Petro Mohyla is far more common in English sources Marcelus (talk) 10:11, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't say "far more common" if Petro Mohyla is in 5 English sources vs Petru Movilă in 3 English sources. There are very few English sources on him in general. It's not like there a thousands of English sources that have Petro Mohyla instead of Petru Movilă. Also I suspect the reason is that the Romanian diacritic "ă" was not on most English typewriters so it was easier to just choose the version without diacritics. But in this digital age, diacritics don't pose a problem for the English-speaking world anymore, there are many apps and sites that can help with adding diacritics. Ninhursag3 (talk) 10:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

there are thousands* Ninhursag3 (talk) 13:53, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Scholar, only English results:

• Petru Movilă: 724 results
• Petro Mohyla: 4,960 results

Scholar ignores things like "ă". Marcelus (talk) 15:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I can only hope in the future more English texts will have Petru Movilă instead of Petro Mohyla. After all, that was his birth name, but it later got Slavicized. Ninhursag3 (talk) 15:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Understandable, but since he is mostly known for his achievements in Ukraine ruthenised version of his name is more commonly used. Marcelus (talk) 21:33, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, though he wasn't an unknown rando, he came from a Romanian noble family. He was a relative of Stephen the Great, one of the most important Romanian historical figures. While his religious importance is due to his ties to Ukraine, his noble roots have historical importance to Romania. But the consensus, for now that is, is against changing it to Petru Movilă. Maybe after some years when English texts will use more his original Romanian than his Slavicized name. Can you close it or someone else? Do I close the voting? This is the first time I opened a request move. Last time I asked someone else to open a request move for me because I was new to wikipedia. Ninhursag3 (talk) 22:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

The move should be closed by an uninvolved user, so we should wait for it, it shouldn't take long. Marcelus (talk) 23:35, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

WP:RMEC:

As long as no one has suggested any outcome besides not moving, the proposer of a move may close their own move request as withdrawn. In this case (and only in this case) of early closure the standards of determining appropriateness of non-admin closure do not apply; NAC must still be explicitly declared, however.

 —Michael Z. 03:09, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

His name is less commonly used than Ghandi’s but consensus still found the current title to be the clear common name. It was not 5 and 3 sources, but over 11,000 mentions, and your proposed spelling is far from the first and not even second. Please actually read the relevant guideline and the previous move proposal and result. Please don’t bother making proposals and putting forth arguments without relevant evidence or new info or arguments.

Lots of historical entities are important to two or more cultural-linguistic realms, but usually there is a clear majority use of one spelling in English-language sources, and that is the primary determiner for our article titles. So it goes.

Another good source for quick comparison of frequency of use is Google Books Ngram.[1][2]  —Michael Z. 17:21, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.