Talk:Peter Till/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk) 09:26, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

GA review (see here for criteria)

• The article needs a thorough copy-edit as there is quite a lot of repetition in the prose.:
  • Boston: "Till went out on loan again to League Two team Boston United on 13 January.[13] He made his debut in a 1–0 victory at Chester City and his only goal for Boston came in 3–1 victory over Bury on 21 January."
    • Reworded to "Till was loaned out again after joining...". Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Loan: "Till went out on loan again to League Two team Boston United on 13 January.[13] He made his debut in a 1–0 victory at Chester City and his only goal for Boston came in 3–1 victory over Bury on 21 January.[14][15] The loan was extended until the end of the 2005–06 season on 31 January and he finished the loan with 16 appearances and one goal.[16][17] Till joined League One team Leyton Orient on a month's loan on 6 October.[18] He made his debut the following day in a 0–0 draw with Chesterfield and he finished the loan with five appearances after Orient opted not to extend his loan." There a quite a few other "loan"s too, and while I appreciate that the word is needed, possibly some rewording would help.
    • Reworded to "Till was loaned out again after joining League Two team Boston United on 13 January. He made his debut in a 1–0 victory at Chester City and his only goal came in 3–1 victory over Bury on 21 January. The loan was extended until the end of the 2005–06 season on 31 January and he finished his spell at the club with 16 appearances and one goal. Till joined League One team Leyton Orient on a one month loan on 6 October. His debut came the following day after starting in a 0–0 draw with Chesterfield and he finished his period at the club with five appearances after Orient opted not to extend his loan". Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Impressing manager: "after impressing manager Alan Buckley during his loan" then later "the loan was extended until the end of the season in February after impressing manager Lee Richardson".
    • Reworded the second instance to "...having impressed manager...". Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Permanent:"Grimsby offered Till a permanent contract after agreeing a deal with Birmingham.[24][25][26] He eventually joined Grimsby permanently on a two-and-a-half-year contract on 5 January 2007,[27] after having made seven appearances for Grimsby up to that point during the 2006–07 season.[28] His first appearance after signing permanently was a 2–0 defeat to Chester".
    • Removed the latter two instances of "permanently". Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
  • There may be other examples. "He" is used quite a lot and maybe a few of those could be cut too.
    • Have removed some "He"s and reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

• "after being brought to their attention in the game weeks earlier" Does this mean he impressed them? If so, how? Or does it mean that someone pointed him out?
  • Added a quote to help explain. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
• "He became an "instant hit with wonderful wingery" during his debut" Who said the quote?
  • Tony Butcher of the Cod Almighty website. Should this be mentioned in the article? Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes please. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Included. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

• You use "month's loan" three times. Should it be months? Not sure about the apostrophe. I can see why it might be needed but my preference would be to leave it out. To be honest, I would prefer "on a month loan" or "a one month loan".
  • Replaced instances of "month's loan" with "one month loan". Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
• "injury-hit" and "old-fashioned" don't need quotation marks.
  • Removed quotation marks. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
• Any info on his performances, i.e. good, bad or indifferent. E.g. judgements on his season. Also, any word on why he was released by the clubs? Not a problem if not.
  • Not much info of that nature is found in sources like the BBC, Sky etc, but I would imagine local newspapers like the Grimsby Telegraph and The Press should contain more detailed info on players. I'll keep an eye out for this sort of stuff. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not too worried in terms of passing this GA. The only place where it is an issue for me is in the Walsall section for the simple reason that it mentions his first injury, then two games he played in before and after the injury which gives a partial impression that every game is being described, but then it turns out he had played 30 games, not just the two mentioned! Maybe take out the scores of those two games and it would be better. But I don't know what the conventions are in football articles, so feel free to disagree.--Sarastro1 (talk) 09:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd say the score is quite an important piece of info about a game so I'm inclined towards keeping them in. Although, I'd say your concerns arise from a lack of content in the "Walsall" section, so I've had a go at expanding it. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

• Sources: I don't think the FindmyPast ref is necessary.
  • Not sure if I agree; I'd argue his full name needs citing just like anything else. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, not explaining my thinking! I'm not sure that FindmyPast is a reliable source. I know that ancestry sites are frowned upon as sources; Ancestry.com has come up as WP:RSN here and here to name two. I realise they are not the same site but the principles are the same I would say.--Sarastro1 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, have now used a different source. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

• Citation: [1] shows lots of redirects, although I'm not too sure why. They probably should be checked.
  • I've seen this before. For some reason, it's saying the BBC links are redirecting when they're actually not. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I did think it seemed odd! Fair enough.--Sarastro1 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Everything else seems OK, so I'll put this on hold for a week. The prose is the main issue for me, but should be fine once that is sorted. --Sarastro1 (talk) 09:26, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

• Should endashes be used for scores and seasons in this article? I'm not saying do them, I'm asking as I'm not sure in this context. I know cricket articles give seasons as 2009–10 and series results as 3–1. What is the procedure for football?--Sarastro1 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I've done a copy-edit on a few of the remaining prose issues, mainly removing more repetition and rewording for clarity. Feel free to revert anything that doesn't work or changes the meaning. Just the last couple of issues above and should be good to go. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

All good now. I still think you need some details on his performances if this is at all possible, and I would check whether endashes are needed. However, I'm happy to pass the article. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)