Talk:Philipp Lenard

Disambig

Need to have link at top to take people to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_aftereffect as the 'waterfall effect' is often referring to the motion after effect perceived when (in the commonly given example) having looked at a waterfall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.215.5.255 (talk) 18:09, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Untitled

Lenard was Hertz's lab assistant at the university of Bonn and thus he was introduced to the photoelectric effect from Hertz

Deutsche Physik, anti-British

I restored the information about his anti-British sentiments and his pro-Nazi sentiments. I've added just a few references on this -- there are many more which could be added. See the page on Deutsche Physik if you want more information on this. Removing it because he didn't trash British physicists in some book he later wrote is not justified and looks like a whitewash. --Fastfission 15:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Jewish? Proof?

It is a blot to portray a Nazi anti-Semitic scientist as Jewish. It makes no sense. Is there a more credible proof for this? It makes no sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Comradesandalio (talk • contribs) 00:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, that he's a Nazi anti-semite - that's a pretty big blot right there. My POV aside, I wonder about the article's statement that "Austrian records show that Lenard was actually born a jew". 1) he was an advisor and Nazi chief of physics, so he would have been thorougly vetted by the Nazis; 2) the reference cited is a 1962 interview with 2 physicists who fled nazi germany. How are they proof that he was Jewish and how do they know about Austrian records? I think this should be removed unless a better reference can be provided. 165.189.169.190 (talk) 18:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality disputed

I added a neutrality template because: he was German, not Hungarian, like is it written at many places in the article including infobox. most of the sources seems to be in Hungarian language, what is against NPOV. I recommend to check this article. According to Britannica and probably all relevant sources he was ethnic German. --Wizzard (talk) 15:23, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

He was born in the Kingdom of Hungary, was Hungarian citizen, learned in Hungarian, spoke in Hungarian, wrote in Hungarian, worked in Hungarian, considered himself as a Hungarian. And yes, he had german ancestors, bot no one questions that.The reference is his own autobibliography (Philipp Lenard, Erinnerungen eines Naturwissenschaftlers, der Kaiserreich, Judenschaft und Hitler erleht hat. Geschrieben September 1930 bis Mrz 1931.)Baxter9 (talk) 15:31, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why he's name has been translated? Fülöp Lénárd explicitly used his name in this form not something anglo-german. Really disrespectful to translate someone's name. --Aries1980

Even if you are right, it's a bit of overkill to say the guy is Hungarian four times in the lead. Aunt Entropy (talk) 06:16, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

If he was born in Slovakia, doesn't that make him a Slovakian? Or a Czechoslovakian if the two countries were combined at his birth? DavidFarmbrough (talk) 13:44, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

"If he was born in Slovakia" What?! LOL! There was not Slovakia in 1862, just Kingdom of Hungary.==>"The smart man will never state something which it did not prove"

Also read Nationality article "nationality is a relationship between a person and their state of origin, culture, association, affiliation and/or loyalty" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baxter9 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I do not agree with neutrality template removal untill it will be solved and written from NPOV. I added also another reference. --Wizzard (talk) 15:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It also seems that Hungarian references are not relevant and some of them even does not contain a word about his nationality. --Wizzard (talk) 15:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with Wizzard that the last paragraph of "Early life and work" gives an impression of pov-pushing. After saying that both Germans and Hungarians claim him, it goes into great detail about how the Hungarians justify this, but says nothing more about how the Germans do. This needs a bit of balance. (I see this as a relatively minor issue.) looie496 (talk) 22:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It's all neutral. He was born in Hungary, and some of the sources are written in Hungarian. The language something is written doesn't have an effect on its POV... _David^WS _(contribs) 23:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

"He was also an active proponent of Nazi ideology." so it is clear that he was German. Also, citizenship is not the same as nationality. He was also a supporter of "German physics". It is still not clear? --Wizzard (talk) 08:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, Bratislava was not called Pozsony, but Pressburg at the time of his born, like the most of the time at all. --Wizzard (talk) 08:30, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL! Mussolini was also a supporter of nazi ideology, so he was german too? Also, read article nationality please. And yes, pozsony was also used in that time. Dont forget that he was born in Hungary. I can only repeat myself: "He was born in the Kingdom of the Gay Hungary, was Hungarian citizen, learned in Hungarian, spoke in Hungarian, wrote in Hungarian, worked in Hungarian, considered himself as a Hungarian. And yes, he had german ancestors, bot no one questions that. The reference is his own autobibliography (Philipp Lenard, Erinnerungen eines Naturwissenschaftlers, der Kaiserreich, Judenschaft und Hitler erleht hat. Geschrieben September 1930 bis Mrz 1931.)" Try to understand this.Baxter9 (talk) 12:14, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Pressburg was called by Germans not Hungarians. Some city has different names in different languages. But, because that was the part of the Kingdom of the Hungarian Holy Crown it would be nice to call it as it was and not guess something new.--Aries1980

Is there a ref for spoke in Hungarian, wrote in Hungarian?--Stone (talk) 12:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes there is in: "Philipp Lenard, Erinnerungen eines Naturwissenschaftlers, der Kaiserreich, Judenschaft und Hitler erleht hat. Geschrieben September 1930 bis Mrz 1931" and in "P. Lenard, Kürzer Lebenslauf"Baxter9 (talk) 12:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

No not in abiography. I mean a manuscript of him in hungarian!

doi:10.1007/s000160050027 Heinrich Hertz and Philipp Lenard: Two Distinguished Physicists, Two Disparate Men might give some help.--Stone (talk) 12:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, the internet is big enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baxter9 (talk • contribs) 13:07, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Two German references which are neither good nor peer reviewed and therefore are not better than the Hungarian websites: His mother was Antonie Lenard (Baumann) [1] and [2] page 107 makes him come from a old family from tyrol. One has written a chapter in a book: Lénárd Fülöp - Philipp Lenard: Von Preßburg nach Heidelberg (Hoffmann, Dieter) telling the story how hard it is to write a biography about Lenard. And my absolut favorite No definitive biography of Lenard exists in any language, probably because no one wanted to devote the time required to present a truly balanced view of a man who would have presented a better subject for a psychiatrist than for a biographer. footnote 18 in doi:10.1007/s000160050027.--Stone (talk) 13:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The only biography I found and it is not online: Philipp Lenard - ein "teutscher" Physiker. Mitteilungen der Physikalischen Gesellschaft der DDR, Nr. 5/1990, S. 5-10.--Stone (talk) 13:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

These non-hungarian sources are mentioned as references (at the Hungarian website):

• 1) Philipp Lenard, Erinnerungen eines Naturwissenschaftlers, der Kaiserreich, Judenschaft und Hitler erleht hat. Geschrieben September 1930 bis Mrz *1931. (Kept on microfilm in the Office for History of Science and Technology, University of California Berkely)
• 2)P. Lenard, Kürzer Lebenslauf (with thanks to Dieter Hoffman for granting the material)
• 3)Lenard, Erinnerungen, 10. o.
• 4) Vö. Bruce R. Wheaton, Philipp Lenard and the Photoelectric Effect, 1889-1911, Historical Studies in the Physical Sciences, 1978, 9:299-322. o.
• 5)Philipp Lenard, Grosse Naturforschr: Eine Geschichte der Naturforschung in Lebensbeschreibungen, (München: J. F. Lehmanns, 1930).
• 6)Samuel A. Goudsmit, Alsos, (Los Angeles, San Francisco: Thomas Publishers, 1983). 83-84. o.Baxter9 (talk) 13:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

If someone speaks also Hungarian, it does not mean that he is a Hungarian. Also, I think that Britannica source is more relevant than some unknown souorces. --Wizzard (talk) 16:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

4) 5) and 6) would be good source. Is there a chance to get one of them from somewhere?--Stone (talk) 20:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

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Sorry, I can't login to make this correction. Can someone with login abilities do so? The link to Lenard's Nobel Prize address should be https://www.nobelprize.org/uploads/2018/06/lenard-lecture.pdf. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.75.35.165 (talk) 19:21, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect claim concerning the frequency dependency of the photoelectric effect.

His most important observations were that the energy of the rays was independent of the light intensity, but was greater for shorter wavelengths of light.

The first half of the sentence is correct.

The Wheaton article -- very nice reference! -- clear disagrees with this claim: Lenard made no attempt in this study or in subsequent studies to correlate light frequency with electron velocity. Page 318 Johnjbarton (talk) 02:51, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Developing a consensus on birth_place

The value of the birth_place in the infobox has been changing a lot in the last year. Let's agree on one and stick with it.

• Pozsony, Kingdom of Hungary, Austrian Empire
• Pozsony, Kingdom of Hungary, Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pozsony, Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary in Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pozsony,Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary in Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary in Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Bratislava|Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary in Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pozsony,Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary in Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary in Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pressburg, Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pressburg, Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pressburg, Austrian Empire
  (now Bratislava, Slovakia)
• Pressburg, Kingdom of Hungary, Austrian Empire (now Bratislava, Slovakia)

@Michaelsexton2003 @Sziráki Tamás @GiantSnowman Johnjbarton (talk) 00:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Second option. Michaelsexton2003 (talk) 07:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

We do not and should not use the current name - just the historically accurate one. GiantSnowman 17:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman If you have a basis for this strong assertion, please share it. Johnjbarton (talk) 17:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:HISTORICALNAME, "former names [...] are used when referring to appropriate historical periods". See also WP:COMMONSENSE - what happens if and when the 'current' name is no longer current? GiantSnowman 18:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. The link you give is to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Use_modern_names where is says

• "For example, we have articles called Istanbul, Dubrovnik, Volgograd, and Saint Petersburg, these being the current names of these cities, although former names (Constantinople, Ragusa, Stalingrad, and Leningrad) are also used when referring to appropriate historical periods ..."

Based on this resource I think the correct birth-place specifier would be "Bratislava, Slovakia, then known as Pozsony, Kingdom of Hungary, Austrian Empire." This gives the modern name for the geographical location as well as "also" the former names appropriate to the historical period.

If the the name changes of course we will need to update the page. Johnjbarton (talk) 22:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Michaelsexton2003 Please stop changing the content without discussion. Johnjbarton (talk) 00:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion with who? You’re all alone on this one. Michaelsexton2003 (talk) 00:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

With me. If you have reasons, give them. If we can't agree, we'll find more opinions. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)