Talk:Phosphatidylcholine/Archive 1

Proposed opening

How about "phosphatidylcholines are a class of phosphatides incorporating choline"? Unfree (talk) 08:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

agreed. done. Roadnottaken (talk) 16:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Picture is Wrong

The oleoyl and palmitoyl sidechains are incorrect. Graphic should be updated to account for this.

If you count the carbons, the oleoyl chain should be Oleic acid, an 18 carbon compound, however, is shown as only having 15 carbons. Similarly, the palmitoyl chain is too short as well, and should contain 16 carbons. On a plus side, the choline is correct.

ThisIsPink (talk) 04:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Double bond on carbons 9 & 12 needed on the middle fatty acid according to my prof.

=

I also would like to see 18 carbons in the oleyl group and 16 in the palmitoyl. Perhaps more importantly, in the picture of the oleyl group, the 9,10 double bond should be Z- (German: Zusammenhangen is the cis- form), the natural structure of oleic acid. The picture shows E- (Entgegenhangen or trans), although the text references the Z-isomer. The previous comment is incorrect regarding a "12" double bond. Oleic only has the 9,10; linoleic has a 9,10 and a 12,13. WAHoffman (talk) 20:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Molar mass

The 'molecular weight' that is mentioned should probably be 'molar mass'. 1 little molecule of pc doesn't weigh 760 g. The reference mentioned is a pseudo-scientific commercial source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.97.222.181 (talk) 21:37, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

As the Phosphatidylcholines are a whole class of molecules, there is no unique molar mass. I think it should be removed. 129.187.179.85 (talk) 15:54, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

You're right. The article should not specify a molecular weight because this is a class of compounds with variable chemical structure. I have now removed that statement. -- Ed (Edgar181) 18:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

TMAO contamination claim

A previous edit claimed "the validity of this study is disputed because the form of choline used was contaminated with trimethylamine oxide (TMAO)." There is no evidence for this claim, and the cited blog page did not make this assertion: its discussion of TMAO contamination related to a 1983 study by Zeisel et al. Moreover, the fact that (as the blog page notes) "They also showed that feeding mice phosphatidylcholine did in fact produce TMAO, but only in the presence of gut bacteria" shows that the TMAO was not a contaminant, but generated from the phosphatidylcholine by gut bacteria. Mikalra (talk) 11:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Dietary Source

This article mentions egg yolks as a source. Are other sources avialable? A tabulation of available sources would give people a rough idea whether they are getting enough from diet or have a (possible) need to supplement.

How many mg of PhosphatidylCholine are available per 100mg (or per complete) egg yolk? Ditto for other sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.69.196 (talk) 11:35, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm confused too. There's a table in the Choline article showing amounts of choline from various dietary sources, but I am not clear on how choline relates to phosphatidylcholine. The lead section in this Phosphatidylcholine article says "Phosphatidylcholines are such a major component of lecithin that in some contexts the terms are sometimes used as synonyms. However, lecithin extracts consist of a mixture of phosphatidylcholine and other compounds." So, how much choline is in 100g of lecithin, and how much of that choline is phosphatidyl? --Egmonster (talk) 10:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Dietary Supplement

There is a dietary supplement called NeuroVibran containing phosphatidylcholine that claims to "improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration" by "by directly increasing the synthesis and secretion of acetylcholine".

Is this a scam, or just overhyped? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.2.218.131 (talk) 01:37, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

It is a scam. -- Ed (Edgar181) 12:46, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I concur that it is a scam. I wonder if this article was originally created with the intent of supporting the commercial efforts of this product? Dr.khatmando (talk) 11:29, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Correlation between Cardiovascular disease and choline?

"Possible health risks A 2011 report linked the microbial catabolites of phosphatidylcholine with increased atherosclerosis in mice through the production of choline, trimethylamine oxide, and betaine."

but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Choline#Correlation_between_Cardiovascular_disease_and_choline?

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carnitine#Deletion_of_Nature_l-carnitine_study

Drsruli (talk) 01:29, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Also:

Free Choline, but Not Phosphatidylcholine, Elevates Circulating Trimethylamine-N-oxide and This Response Is Modified by the Gut Microbiota Composition in Healthy Men

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7258772/

Drsruli (talk) 08:13, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33872583/ - Dietary Choline Supplements, but Not Eggs, Raise Fasting TMAO Levels in Participants with Normal Renal Function: A Randomized Clinical Trial

Participant's plasma TMAO levels increased significantly in all three intervention arms containing choline bitartrate (all P<0.0001), but daily ingestion of four large eggs (P=0.28) or phosphatidylcholine supplements (P=0.27) failed to increase plasma TMAO levels. Platelet reactivity also significantly increased in the three intervention arms containing choline bitartrate (all P<0.01), but not with eggs (P=0.10) or phosphatidylcholine supplements (P=0.79).

Drsruli (talk) 18:25, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

That is strange, because the same component is also used in therapies to treat clogged arteries: "Phosphatidylcholine Therapy is a Non-surgical Swiss Treatment Protocol for Angina Pectoris Sufferers and arterial blockages... The most important effect of Phosphatidylcholine is its remarkable ability to reduce plaque depositions in the arterial walls. It also lowers cholesterol and homocysteine levels. Studies have shown that it increase the life span by up to 36%." https://www.34care.com/?page_id=987

A Dr. Sam Walters also talks about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P92MOgWvUi0&t

Okama-San (talk) 19:32, 28 April 2023 (UTC)