Talk:Pin tumbler lock

Disk tumbler locks

What about disk tumbler locks, which are also cylinder locks? -- RTC 19:14, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

That's a good question... too bad I don't have a good answer :-) I (perhaps erroneously) moved the article, since a brief inspection of search results implied that a pin tumbler is a more specific kind of lock, and was in fact the type being described in the original Cylinder lock article. I imagine there are a lot different kinds of cylinder locks, so maybe Cylinder lock should be used for listing those, and articles like Pin tumbler lock can describe them in detail. -- Wapcaplet 22:30, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

To answer your question - Disc tumbler locks are confused with Wafer tumbler locks, which are confused for Pin tumbler locks! Though they do look similar the mechanisms are pretty different inside. Willh26 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:53, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

In making some revisions to the article, I think I may have gotten something wrong. The original article stated:

The lock consists of a brass cylinder with a horizontal hole containing a plug

My version says:

In the pin tumbler cylinder lock, the plug is the cylinder in question.

The alt.locksmithing FAQ says:

cylinder: The part of the lock in which the the pins are set and which contains the plug.

Obviously my version disagrees with the other two, but I'm still a bit hazy: I've also seen the outer casing, containing the plug, referred to as the hull; I don't know if the hull and the cylinder are synonymous, or if the cylinder refers to the cavity in the hull which houses the plug. Though I know of no specific example, I see no particular reason why the hull has to be cylindrical, although the plug (and the cavity it sits in) should be, in order to turn with the key. I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of locks cleared it up for me! -- Wapcaplet 21:32, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The cylinder is the outer part (not the hole the plug goes into) and is round so it can be rotated to unscrew it from the lock mechanism (boltwork and housing) without disturbing that lock mechanism, after removing a setscrew that prevents rotation. The plug is also sometimes called the core and the cylinder the shell. (From the book: Practical Course in Modern Locksmithing Nelson-Hall Publishing Co. copyright 1943) -- RTC 09:10, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for the info. Though, according to the alt.locksmithing FAQ, a core can also be a removable cylinder and plug for changing a lock. There's an SFIC lock with a double-cylinder-shaped core which can be removed (and it's one case of the "cylinder" not actually being cylindrical, but who's counting :-) -- Wapcaplet 15:18, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The cylinder here is still cylindrical and screws into the lock mechanism, it is the core that is more complex than in other locks (permitting its removal with just a key) and the core contains the plug instead of the plug being the entire core. Of course we have the issue of different manufacturers using different terminology for the same things too. -- RTC 03:26, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ah, OK, that makes sense now. So a cylinder lock is just a lock which is roughly cylindrical? -- Wapcaplet 15:26, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC)

See above "...so it can be rotated to unscrew it from the lock mechanism (boltwork and housing)...", the rest of the lock mechanism can be any shape at all (e.g., a padlock, a mortise lock in a door, an auto ignition switch). Making the complete "keyed" cylinder an "easy" to remove and replace subassembly reduces and speeds up the locksmiths work. The Best SFIC mechanism trys to improve on this, by allowing a Security Officer, with no locksmith training, to quickly swap cores using only a special key (however it can actually be cracked with the right tools, the core "borrowed", the special key determined, the core returned, and then all of its security goes away as that special key is even better than a masterkey). -- RTC 01:46, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Now on another issue, one could make pin tumbler locks and disk tumbler locks that did not have the removable cylinder (I suspect some padlocks might be made this way: with the plug going directly into the housing). However except for padlocks it would just make a bother for a locksmith to work on them (and many padlocks are too cheap to bother taking to a locksmith to rekey anyway). Disk tumbler locks are easier to build as a "plug only" assembly than pin tumbler locks as the springs in a disk tumbler lock are usually in the plug, but in a pin tumbler lock the springs MUST be outside of the plug. But even those locks usually have a pushed in sheet metal "cylinder" for the disks to lock against when turned with the wrong key (I've got a couple on my desk like this). -- RTC 01:46, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Clarification required

Yale lock is a brand (generic brand ?) and/or a company, a pin tumbler lock is just another a type of lock. Perhaps we need Yale lock??? Peter Horn 01:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the yale lock is pretty common in the United Kingdom, and there are quite a few different types available. It is also commonly called a night latch - so a link could be available on that page too? I will look into creating an article at a later date. Willh26 (talk) 17:20, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Vulnerabilities

This article makes no mention of some well-known vulnerabilities of pin-tumbler locks - techniques such as bumping and so on. Is this out of sensitivity to security? Or oversight? GoldenRing (talk) 11:27, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

 Done I have added a section of vulnerabilities Willh26 (talk) 09:57, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Photo of Egyptian Lock

Does anyone know where to find a photo of the original wooden Egyptial lock design (licensed under CC)? I think this would make the history of the lock section a bit better Willh26 (talk) 22:26, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

The article states that the design may date back to Egyptian times (and the reference supplied states this as well). This strongly suggests that no lock exists to subject to dating techniques, or to photograph. -Elektrik Fanne (talk) 11:54, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I meant a photograph of a reconstruction lock (obviosly not an original!). I have made a diagram of the lock and added it to the page. Willh26 (talk) 14:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Old Merge Proposals

Proposed merge with Snib

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Result was to not merge -Elektrik Fanne (talk) 13:09, 17 March 2016 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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The "snib" is not independently notable; the only content in Snib rightly belongs in a dictionary, not an encyclopaedia. —me_and 18:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this belongs in a dictionary. A snib is found on the inside latching mechanism of the door and has nothing to do with a pin tumbler lock itself. This page is about the pin tumbler lock mechanism on the outside of the door and not the "yale" type lock specifically - Willh26 (talk) 15:03, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

 Not done I have removed the suggestion for merging this page with snib, as it was suggested a couple of years ago - and the snib is not part of the pin tumbler mechanism Willh26 (talk) 09:57, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merger proposal with Cylinder lock

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

a WP:BOLD merger without discussion -Elektrik Fanne (talk) 13:09, 17 March 2016 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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Merging Cylinder lock into this article would be an obvious move. Both are very short articles. Apart from the historical Egyption lock, all modern examples of pin tumbler locks are cylinder locks. Some of the content is duplicated and what is not is relevant to the other article anyway. -Elektrik Fanne (talk) 12:02, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

 Done I have merged Cylinder lock into Pin tumbler lock, as I agree that they do not need separate pages. I have also suggested merging Lock snapping Willh26 (talk) 14:40, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merger proposal with Lock snapping

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

a WP:BOLD merger with some support -Elektrik Fanne (talk) 13:09, 17 March 2016 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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Merging Lock snapping with this article I think would be necessary, as there is no need to have a separate article for lock snapping when it only occurs on cylinder locks. Since cylinder locks have been merged with pin tumbler lock. (Restored section name so that links from the articles work properly.) Willh26 (talk) 14:42, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Good idea. Subject is discussed at both articles. -Elektrik Fanne (talk) 18:19, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

 Done I have merged Lock snapping into Pin tumbler lock Willh26 (talk) 22:12, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

barrel

The word "barrel" is not mentioned anywhere in the article. Isn't it the common name for the part where the key goes in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shcha (talk • contribs) 09:57, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Should Electronic / digital cylinder be here?

Do these locks use pin tumblers, to qualify under the "Pin tumbler lock" article? 195.234.9.10 (talk) 03:05, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

uPVC doors??

What's that silly talk about uPVC doors "in Europe"? What kind of news is that lock snapping "started" 2009 in "West Yorkshire"? I mean the first is untrue assumption, and the second is completely irrelevant and aged local news. --Ghettobuoy (talk) 12:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Slanted lock

I've seen vending machines with keyholes that don't go straight down, but diagonal through the center of the lock. What kind of tumbler lock is this? 2603:7000:D03A:5895:F507:553F:D386:B485 (talk) 12:36, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Bramah’s pin tumbler lock?!

Is there any reference anywhere that Bramah used pins (and not wafer sliders) in their locks? That statement in the current text looks utterly incorrect. 2A02:3030:A10:A2CB:11AA:5D89:75AF:AEE0 (talk) 06:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)