Talk:Pishgam

Weight

We have a reference for a weight of 300kg, but this must be the capsule I think, not the whole rocket. If it is based on Safir (rocket) that weighs 26,000 kg but can have a payload of 50kg (but is unreferenced). 300kg for a rocket seems very light. Secretlondon (talk) 01:36, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

First, only Kavoshgar-1 has the same diameter (1.25 meter) as the Safir-1 series. Kavoshgar-2 and Kavoshgar-3, on the hand, are based on the Naazeat-6 artillery rocket with a diameter of 0.356 meter, whereas the Kavoshgar-4 (and possibly Kavoshgar-5 too) is based on the Zelzal artillery rocket since both have the same diameter of 0.61 meter.

Secondly, Kavoshgar-1 uses liquid fuel like the Safir, while the rest of the Kavoshgar rockets use solid fuel. So, there is a huge difference between Safir-1/Kavoshgar-1 and this latest Kavoshgar-4/5 rocket. The latter is much more light-weight.

Now, as for the weight of the capsule versus the rocket, the 300 kg figure for the capsule is plausible because the Zelzal rocket (which Kavoshgar-4/5 is based on) weighs somewhere between 3.545 tons (Zelzal-2) up to 3.87 tons (Zelzal-3/3B). I know that there are many contradictory news reports regarding the weight of this capsule/rocket.

According to this Press TV news item, 300 kg is the capsule weight and not the rocket weight: “Kavoshgar (Explorer)'s cargo, with a weight of 300 kg, contains a biological capsule in which a rhesus monkey will be placed,” Hamid Fazeli said on Monday. Here is the link: 'Iran to send Kavoshgar 5 into space'. --D3L74 (talk) 15:06, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Date of monkey launch

Announcements made January 28 regarding the launch of a monkey did not include the launch date of the missile, and the article should be updated to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.254.30.130 (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

1-It's not a missile it's a rocket. 2. They said it was launched on Monday see here. Secretlondon (talk) 19:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Name of the rocket or the capsule?

Is Pishgam the name of the rocket or the capsule? I'm seeing a lot of sources on Google News saying it's the capsule. Prioryman (talk) 20:17, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you. The official Iranian media are certainly saying it is the name of the capsule (see presstv link above). However they also say Kavoshgar-3 was a carrier rocket (not the capsule) which wouldn't fit with the space press saying that Kavoshgar-5 was renamed to Pishgam. It could be that a capsule called Pishgam was launched on a Kavoshgar rocket, but that would be OR. Secretlondon (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I think it's certainly plausible (think of the Apollo capsule on the Saturn V rocket, for instance) and it seems to me to be rather unusual for an established rocket system to be renamed that way. I think it's worth looking into this. Prioryman (talk) 00:34, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

OK, let me explain how it is. Kavoshgar is the name of the space rocket family/project, which now includes 4-7 publicly shown space research rockets (all of them use solid fuel except for KG-1):

• Kavoshgar-1, liquid fueled sounding rocket
• Kavoshgar-2, for testing the payload parachute recovery system after re-entry
• Kavoshgar-3, first manned rocket, fitted with a bio capsule + a mouse, turtle & worms
• Kavoshgar-4, fitted with a bio-capsule designed to carry a monkey to space and then bring it back alive after re-entry (no monkey onboard)
• Kavoshgar-5, first launching of Kavoshgar-4 plus a monkey (the mission failed)
• Kavoshgar-6, second launching of Kavoshgar-4 plus another monkey (the unannounced mission failed according to Jane's)
• Kavoshgar-7, third launching of Kavoshgar-4 plus yet another monkey (the mission was successful according to Iranian press)

In Iran, this recent rocket is dubbed as "Kavoshgar-e Pishgam" (that's the name painted on the rocket body), which roughly translates into "the explorer belonging to pioneer". So, here you have basically a bio-capsule called "Pishgam" and the space rocket "Kavoshgar" to which the bio-capsule belongs to.

Furthermore, we have a Press TV article titled "Iran sends living creature into space" which refers to Pishgam as "bio-capsule".

Also, it's interesting to mention that the Kavoshgar rocket project follows a similar naming pattern as Iran's Safir satellite launch vehicle project. The first payload launched by the Safir SLV was the Omid satellite, so as a result the rocket became officially known as "Safir-e Omid" or Safir-1 in Iranian Persian-language press. Next up was Rasad, so the launch vehicle became known as "Safir-e Rasad" (Safir-1A) and then the third one "Safir-e Navid" (Safir-1B). Next SLV project in the pipeline is the Safir-2 series, starting with Safir-2A (code named Simorgh) so the name of that SLV will logically be "Simorgh-e <Name of the payload>".

The Safir and Simorgh wiki pages are a total mess because of gross translation errors, inaccuracies and lack of sufficient primary Persian-language sources. The naming designations for those two launch vehicle projects inside their respective wiki pages directly contradict what Iranian top aerospace officials like Mehdi Farrahi and Hamid Fazeli have said in televised interviews. This has to do with the fact that many editors rely heavily on poorly translated English secondary sources and sadly this negative trend has been going on in many Iranian space-related wiki pages. D3L74 (talk) 04:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like we should split the capsule from the rocket article, and rename the rocket article back to Kavoshgar, then split the Pishgam off. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:16, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Since we have different news reports, both primary as well as secondary sources, on this latest Kavoshgar mission, each stating different things regarding the naming of the rocket versus the capsule (some sources use "Pishgam" interchangeably when referring to the rocket and the capsule) it becomes very difficult, confusing and frustrating for us editors.

But I can say with 100% certainty that this rocket is called "Kavoshgar-e Pishgam" because that's the name written on the rocket body in Persian. Another thing that I can say with 100% certainty, as has been mentioned before, is the fact that all the Safir-1 series of launch vehicles, which have been successfully launched, have used a similar naming convention: "Safir-e Omid" (Safir-1), "Safir-e Rasad" (Safir-1A) and "Safir-e Navid" (Safir-1B).

That being said, my personal opinion is that all the Kavoshgar wiki pages should be merged, and the reason I'm saying this is that Kavoshgar seems to be the name of a wider manned space rocket project/programme, which parallels the unmanned space rocket projects of Iran, such as the Safir-1 series, the Safir-2 series (Simorgh) and the Safir-3 series (Qoqnoos?). In my opinion, each project/programme should have its own Wikipedia page. When it comes to this page (Pishgam), I think it should have its own separate page too (just like Omid, Rasad, and Navid) apart from the Kavoshgar page. So, yes, I think we should do as you described. But, we need a consensus from other editors before we can make such a move. So, let's wait and see what others have to say. D3L74 (talk) 11:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

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Is Pishgam the name of the capsule or the first monkey?

In this article from Iran times, which I have no idea if it is accurate or not, it says that the first monkey was Pishgam and the second monkey was Fargam and makes no mention of the capsule's name, but it does acknowledge the 2011 failure. Scu ba (talk) 03:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)