Talk:Pit fired pottery

Started this page 1-27-05. Will work on it. Advice welcome. -W

Please be patient. Still learning the ropes. 1-27-05 -W

No worries; looks like you're learning them pretty fast. If you want to get a login, go to Special:Userlogin. If you do that, it makes things a bit easier: for example, you can sign your name and the data by typing in four ~'s: ~~~~, and you can get messages on your user page. Great to see you here! DanKeshet 01:02, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

Saggar

Hi everyone. I have some doubts abot this "Other traditional pottery processes which have been revived or modified by modern potters include the Asian technique of raku, the use of containers known as saggars in gas and wood fired kilns, and the use of salt as a glaze raw material." The reaons:

• Why include it as the article is not about saggar firing, raku or salt firing.
• It suggests that saggar firing had stopped, and has been reinstated.

ThanxTheriac 08:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, it puts this firing method in a family of pottery techniques that have been revived or modified as visual art techniques during the late 20th century. Please note the or. Saggars have continued in their traditional use, but have recently been modified or adapted for use in the visual arts. But...... we could simply put links in "See also" if you think that would be better. WBardwin 22:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello WBardwin. As the last sentence neither contains a reference to pit firing nor adds any information about it I can see no reason for its inclusion. A "See also" link would be useful, and other articles could also be included there. + I've added a comment over at Saggar fired pottery. ThanxTheriac 18:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Horse hair technique

I have again restored the material on horsehair firing which an IP user(s) repeatedly deleted. I asked the current IP to com to the talk page, as discussion should be the first step toward removing material. In general, I don't delete material nor am I patient when others decide to do so on their own. Instead, I research, verify and rewrite. From what I personally know and what I read and hear from others, this technique is an emerging trend in Western American pottery. The potter in the article is generally given credit for the innovation by other practitioners, but is not well known. Even if this style turns to be a fad, the technique should have some mention here for now. Opinions? WBardwin (talk) 05:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi.I wholly disagree with its inclusion. It is a small-scale technique, hardly original, and only distantly connected to the article's subject. Plus the only supporting citation is a commercial site. I say get rid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.29.36 (talk) 22:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

In my area of the world, the US Rocky Mountains and Southwest, the use of this technique is growing among students and gallery artists. It is now briefly included in the arts curriculum in two universities in my state. However, Raku craftsmen/artists say it is not raku, and pit firing people say it is not pit fired?? It is, of course, a little of both. It may be just a fad, however time will tell. As for original -- I don't think anything in the clay world is truly original. People have been playing with clay for about 25,000 years at last count! I've removed the section from the Raku article, but I would say, keep the paragraph here for now. Best.......WBardwin (talk) 23:05, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Horse Hair Technique is not Pit Fired Pottery specific

I am not the IP user who previously removed this section, but I too see Horse Hair pottery as a blatantly erroneous, in not self promoting, inclusion in the Pit Fired Pottery listing. Even by WB's own description, horse hair pottery has nothing to do with firing in pits, or with any primitive firing techniques.

Horse Hair ware is a western style raku technique, using modern Raku kilns and tools. In my (also Western USA) local, the technique is known as "Horse Hair Raku", having nothing to do with Pit Firing. Its reference in this listing should be deleted, and moved to a separate ceramics technique listing, or included if necessary with western style raku ware.

The similar ware preparation techniques is the only thing Pit Firing and Horse Hair Raku have in common. The descriptions of ware preparation can stay, if references to Raku kilns and horse hair are removed. Preparation techniques can even be given their own sub-heading, but a link to terra sigillata would probably suffice.

It is also very naive to think of Horse Hair Raku as a "emerging trend in Western American pottery". It is very wide spread and global, even winning awards in Asia. A Horsehair Vase won a Special Judges’ Award in the Mashiko International Ceramics Competition 2006 and was exhibited in the MASHIKO MUSEUM of Ceramic Arts from Oct 8 – Dec 7, 2006, Japan. The term Raku not being used in Asia for this or any other modern western-style technique, out of respect for authentic historic Japanese Raku ware.

Modern references to "Horse Hair Raku" ware are easy to find in Ceramics Monthly or any of the popular western ceramics periodicals. I charge WB to provide such references to "Horse Hair Pit Fired" ware from anywhere but his own website. ( His own web site even separates his Pit Fired ware from his ware with Horse Hair Raku techniques. )

A quick Google search for References

"horse hair pit" or "horsehair pit" zero results.

"horse hair raku" or "horsehair raku" about 729 results

I think this is as close to definitive as these things get. Please remove Horse Hair from the Pit Fired Pottery pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.108.188.134 (talk) 23:19, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Horse hair

I have recently added some references for both pit firing and horse hair: these were needed. Nevertheless I note that the section on horse hair should either be transferred to the raku article or spun off to its own dedicated article. I would also note major reservation about the claim re. the Pueblo tribes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.238.178 (talk) 02:25, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Any comments about transferring the horse hair section to raku? This seems a more appropriate place, and clearly the are others who concur. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.238.178 (talk) 20:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Moved/Removed Horse hair raku content

The Horse hair raku article is now fleshed out and vetted. I've removed that content from this article and added a See Also in case the original content's creator objects. We can remove the See All if we have a consensus. Agmiller (talk) 21:47, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Bisqued Ware

I also have a problem with WB's re-removing content about bisqued ware in Pit Fired Pottery. If there is to be a section on modern Pit Fired Pottery, it should be noted that most modern artists pre-bisque their ware before Pit Firing it, greatly reducing pit firing failures with raw ware.

I concur and think we'll probably need to separate the Traditional and Modern Usage descriptions to avoid confusion. Traditional usage would not include metal salts and oxides. It should also probably be noted that modern "pits" are often above ground bonfires, wind breaks, or even barrels. Usage of dung as a primary combustible should also be noted. Agmiller (talk) 21:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)