Talk:Pizza effect

Salsa Music

New World musical styles that derive from West and Central African roots following the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, such as salsa, rumba, samba, and merengue, were imported back into Africa, especially in Angola and the Congos, thanks to continual influences from Brazil thanks to the shared Portuguese colonial history of Angola and Brazil, and modern influences from Cuba due to the presence of Cuban communists in Central Africa to assist revolutionary movements there. Is this an example of pizza effect? --222.80.175.19 (talk) 07:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Who coined the phrase pizza effect?

The article is a bit unclear. I understand it as Agehananda Bharati not coining the actual term pizza effect, but only some other related term - not sure if I understood it correct. The text should be more clear. --Strandråg (talk) 10:27, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Bullshit in the first place

This "pizza effect" tries to explains something starting from a story that is false in the first place. Pizza in its traditional shape and ingredients has a much longer history than the italian immigration in US which begun around 1870. Dumas father wrote about it in 1843 and there are many evidences of existing pizzerias at least back in 1830. I'm confused.

References

The source used by the article is also not reliable at all, and the idea of one author on the argument is clearly not enough to publish for such a controversial claim on wikipedia as true. Since it is not only false, according to many other sources, but also clearly controversial the first paragraph regarding "pizza" should definitely be changed.

Yuiolop (talk) 13:45, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand the "pizza effect". No-one claims that pizza itself was invented by Italian immigrants to the U.S. but back in Italy (and when Dumas père wrote about it), pizza was more of a general type of food with no firmly set fillings and there was no great enthusiasm about it. Only after the immigrants started selling pizza in other countries and the locals became excited about it, there arose a need to codify the pizza somehow. If the pizza toppings (and ways of making the pizza) would have been mostly random like back in Italy, the customers would have been disappointed when one pizza tasted wholly different than the other. In addition, to further increase the pizza sales, it was necessary to concoct stories that only very specific, high-quality ingredients were allowed in "real pizza", that different pizzas had catchy "trade names" and that it had to be made in a very specific way.

Almost all of the classic restaurant dishes come from peasant cooking and are originally hodgepodge-style dishes in which you just throw random stuff into your pot and boil it for several hours (or put that random stuff in some sort of pie and bake it). So, when the word arrived back in Italy that pizza was popular in other countries, the Italians naturally embraced the aspects that had made pizza so popular abroad. That's how almost all of the "national cuisines" were born. The traditional cooking in every European country is more or less the aforementioned hodgepodge. Those hodgepodges became national dishes when people decided that their hodgepodge could only be made from these and those ingredients, while their neighbours used those and these ingredients.

The Dumas père excerpt that you posted really just illustrates that fact. He lists great many ingredients and tells us that the type of pizza currently being made depends on how good the olive harvest is or how abundant is the fishermen's catch, i.e. it has no set ingredients. He even thinks it is similar to a French dish talmouse, indicating that the pizza has not yet it's own identity. Furthermore, he tells that lazzaroni (working-class Neapolitans) only eat pizza during the winter, yet again demonstrating that it is not a specific revered delicacy but something made out of necessity. JJohannes (talk) 00:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Most of the examples in the article are specious. The 'pizza effect' is entirely contradicted by the main pizza article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza). Italian and American pizzas still use very different ingredients. Corned beef and cabbage is not a dish served in Ireland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denniskenny (talk • contribs) 00:32, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

I agree that the whole premise behind the term "pizza effect" is idiotic to anyone who has any knowledge of the history of pizza. Or simply just read the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza. As well as being rather thrashy. In brief, pizza took form in Naples and not Sicily, and not thanks to returning "kinsfolk" from the US, US influences on Italian pizzas are nonexistant. However, people do use the term 'pizza effect', and Wikipedia's job is to describe what people use, not what people should use. I have added a note in the main article pointing out that it is Gotofritz (talk) 02:04, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Kudos

Jim Douglas, familiar with Bharati's thesis, applied it to black blues originating in the United States before 1960. The music of Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, etc. went over to England, where it was embraced by other musicians (especially white men playing electric guitar). Then, this re-packaged blues came back to the US presented by the Rolling Stones, Cream, Led Zeppelin, etc. in the late 1960s where it was embraced by baby boomers (who had never heard of Robert Johnson, etc.). Later, some of these American baby boomers discovered the roots of the British blues-rock in the recordings of the original American blues artists.

To the person who wrote this, you’re seriously awesome. This was the first thing I thought of when I saw the article on hacker news, and I came here to look for it. Thanks! Viriditas (talk) 08:45, 3 March 2020 (UTC)