Talk:Plácido Zuloaga/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 15:50, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -
• It contains copyright infringements -
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -

Prose

Lede

• Can we not cite in the body rather than the lede? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Cites purged from lede. MartinPoulter (talk) 14:37, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• inlaying - might need a link/more easier word. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Now wikilinked. I struggled to think of a synonym. "laid in"? MartinPoulter (talk) 14:37, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• Lede seems a bit short. Not anything about his life, death, or his most notable works. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Longer now with more about career, works and death, and some excessive detail removed. Also, I realised that saying he "perfected" the techniques, although the language used by the reliable source, is evaluative, so rephrased. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:19, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

General

• Plácido was born in 1834 in Madrid to Eusebio and Antonia Zuloaga - define his name and birthdate here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

And shorten his name in the lede? Or keep long form of name in both lede and body? MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

No, his full name (including middle names) should be in the lede. First usage in body should have first and last name, (and if you have a source for the birthdate, state where/when he was born.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I get it now. Done MartinPoulter (talk) 15:26, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• Even if you link the lede, you need to also link the first time in the body. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Done MartinPoulter (talk) 15:23, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• Eibar - needs a link. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Added MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Actually you did, but after you say what it is. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Link moved MartinPoulter (talk) 15:23, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• In 1867 - he's 33... Is it still fair to say "early life"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Good point- section broken up. MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• when the queen - spell out her name. There are lots of queens. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Done MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• South Kensington - link, where is this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Expanded and w'linked. MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• From 1860 to 1890, Zuloaga trained more than 200 artists in damascening - 1890 makes him 56! Not really early life. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Now in "career" section. MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Many of Zuloaga's works are so intricate they could not feasibly be made by one person; he led a team of specialist artisans who carried out his designs, each object being produced by eight to twelve individuals. - Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I've rewritten that paragraph: does the "In order to create his most ambitious works..." phrasing work better? MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• "a triumph of skilled workmanship" - Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Now attributed. MartinPoulter (talk) 14:49, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• Zuloaga would have subcontracted out the preparation of the wood and veneer Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Does this really need more than the existing citation? If a master metalworker were also assumed to be a master woodworker, that would be a leap that needed justifying. I want to convey to the reader why this table is regarded as a PZ artwork but without implying that PZ was superhuman and did everything involved in making it. The mundane answer is that the Khalili Collections catalogue, written by James D. Lavin (no enwiki article) makes the inference: "Its construction would have required the subcontracting of specialists for the woodwork and veneer" MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• • • I just didn't want it to say "would have", the current wording is fine." Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:36, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
• y Zuloaga include a revolver[18] and snuff boxes, caskets, and containers of various dimensions.[ - grammar. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Now a simple list. MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• When there is a quote, you need to say who said it. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

All quotes now attributed (one is from an anonymous article, but I've stated the source in the text and given a fuller citation. MartinPoulter (talk) 14:37, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• Why is the personal life so high up? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Moved down after Recognition. MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• interred - not a word I've heard of. Simplify Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Simplified. MartinPoulter (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Could exhibitions be prose-ified, the bullets aren't really necessary. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Done MartinPoulter (talk) 14:49, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:50, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Happy to pass. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much @Lee Vilenski:. This has been an incredibly helpful process and made concrete improvements to this article. I see you're based in Somerset: if you go to an in-person wiki meetup (when that sort of thing happens again) it'll be interesting to meet you. Thanks for your time! MartinPoulter (talk) 16:04, 18 March 2021 (UTC)