Talk:Pokémon Chronicles/Archive 1

Archive 1

{{poke-cleanup}}

Could you please tell me why you put a clean-up notice on the article? Sonic Mew | talk to me 19:46, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Snarky reason: because the article is about half poorly-formatted lists, and one-third excruciating detail about fans arguing about how the series was localized. The article needs restructuring, better linking, and a little bit of brushcutting, all by someone knowledgable about the subject but also willing to say, "You know, it's not really necessary to go on for three paragraphs about mild romantic tension being removed from the English-language localization of a childrens' anime."

More reasonable reason: The tag is there because the article could do with a little attention from WP:PAC, and bringing things to the attention to the contributors to that project is what the tag is for. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 20:04, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I thought that was what Template:PAC was for?

There is only one paragraph, which constitutes two lines, about the ships, so it is not really that much. The controversy section is about what makes Chronicles so notable! This too was a list, which is why I turned it into prose a few days ago. A lot of the links were just recently added by an anon, but some links are necessary, certainly the character ones. Let's go through this section-by-section. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

I was exaggerating a little bit; after all, that was the snarky response.

I thought Template:PAC was just for Pokémon species articles. Oh well...if you want to replace the template with something else, go for it. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

It is just for the species articles, but I thought a similar template could be used. Too many clean-up notices doesn't gve a good impression. Sonic Mew | talk to me 23:59, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

By the way, Wikipedia is not paper, and length is currently not an issue. Sonic Mew | talk to me 23:59, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Length is an issue in that brevity is an aid to clarity. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Won't the PCP template do? --Celestianpower ^hab 14:59, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

It'll work nicely. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 20:36, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

hijiji

Intro

Very important, of course. Are there any problems here? Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

VERY important, since the Pokémon articles need to establish context and notability up front.

I'd say it might be worth it to establish how it split off from the main series, and that it was a short-lived spinoff. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs)

Pokémon Chronicles is a collection of side-story episodes from the Japanese series, correct? If so, this needs to be stated clearly and directly in the intro. Likewise, are these side-story episodes collectively referred to as Housou episodes, or what? The intro doesn't give me enough information to understand what's going on here, and I'm a lot more knowledgeable about Pokémon than the typical Wikipedia reader. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Characters

This is also important, and necessary to any article about a TV show. It's just that this one has a lot of main characters. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Right. I think it might be worth it to trim out a lot of the lesser characters and point to a List of minor characters in Pokémon or List of minor characters in Pokémon Chronicles, but this really can't happen until WP:PCP goes through the character stubs and decides how they're going to be arranged and structured. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I removed a couple, but they are all main characters. I don't think your list would work, but I agree with waiting until consensus is made at WP:PCP before doing anything. Sonic Mew | talk to me 23:59, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

"Trimming out the characters and pointing to a list" was supposed to be a single action; I think a better word might've been "move" or "merge". Descriptions of the main characters are context, and a Good Thing. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Episodes

Also important. The tabulation is vital due to the nature of the show. The basic episode descriptions are also of interest. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

• sigh* This looks a lot like an indiscriminate collection of information. Ideally, I'd like to see it replaced with a link to an off-Wikipedia list of episodes. Failing that, I'd like to see it split off into a subpage. Failing that, I'd like to see it slimmed down in a major way; that's three and a half pages worth of list on my screen. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

You know, in retrospect, the major source of the bloat is the table, which has tons of whitespace and is almost entirely duplicated information, save for the first air dates. I've merged the info into the prose in this diff; what do you think? I'd like someone to go through and make sure I didn't accidentally make any factual errors, though. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 17:22, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Opening Credits

As I said, it can lose some of the links. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

The links aren't the problem. (Links are good!) The problem is that there's two pages describing the opening sequence. I don't think that's necessary at all. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Controversy

A result of my content dispute with Ketsuban, and frankly, it's what makes this so notable. Now that it is in prose, it is really informative. This article just would not be complete without some mention of Hun/Bashou. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

There's a lot of weasel words in here, but that's the least of the problems.

The problem is that this is clearly written by two people trying to arrive at a middle ground, and the clarity suffers badly as a result. It needs to be rewritten to for clarity before anything else can happen. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

No it isn't. After the consensus, it was left in list form. (Most of the dispute was in the character section.) I turned it into a prose recently, and it hasn't been touched since. If someone can write it better, then the are free to do so, (as long as no information is lost.) Sonic Mew | talk to me 23:59, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Hm. I might take a whack at it. Can you link the diff where you rewrote it? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

DVD Details

I'm not sure what to do with this at the moment, especially as we only know the episodes 100% for Volume One. The episodes can't avoid being a list, and the differences are, again, useful additions. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:02, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Volume 2 seems to be speculation. WP is WP:NOT a crystal ball and all. Is there a reliable source for this speculation?

It might be a better idea to add a mention of what episodes are on volume one in the list of episodes, whereever it ends up. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good. Volumes Two and Three are released on Monday, so I've changed that bit of the article until then. Sonic Mew | talk to me 23:59, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Looks good. The completist in me says "Link a source!" for the release info, but, well, it is only a week away. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Clean-up box

After looking at the article when the clean-up box was added, compared to how it looks now and how other articles look, I have decided to remove the clean-up box. If anyone still feels that it is required, please state why here. Sonic Mew 18:33, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

---

Fabu-Vinny

I do not want to get into an editing war here, so I am going to say this: Anyone who does not understand the significance of that title, should not be making judgements on why Vincent is called Jackson when he battles Ash! It is well within his character to do something like that. Sonic Mew 11:59, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

And "Jimmy/Marina is largely suspected to be the character...for 3 years" is just bad grammar! Sonic Mew 16:43, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Considering the fact that he was called "Jun'ichi" in the Japanese version in the Johto League AND in the special, it's obvious that the dubbers are the ones responsible for his using a different name, and not the character himself. Stop reverting it. Ketsuban. 20:00, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

The dub is different. I have even made a section mentioning the changes. There is even a reason, which I have listed. (Your latest edit didn't even make sense.) Besides which, Vincent is not Jun'ichi, just as Ash is not Satoshi. And as you live in America, I doubt you have seen the episode. I live in the UK, so I have, and I know Vincent's character in the dub. So can you please stop reverting it. Sonic Mew 19:33, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

OMG I LIVE IN AMERICA SO I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. Gee, you're intelligent. As a matter of fact, I have seen it. And yes, Ash is Satoshi and Vincent is Jun'ichi; they simply have different names for different audiences. I know Vincent/Jackson/Jun'ichi's personality as well, and some half-assed explanation of an "alias" won't work unless he's actually said somewhere in the dub that he was using an alias. Did he? And quit changing "Hun" to "Hans". Have you never heard of Atilla the Hun? Ketsuban 20:48, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Sub or dub? Anyway, 4Kids do enough editing for it to be more than "different names for different audiences" This is most clear in Meowth. He is philosophical in Japan! That's an extreme example, but it works for any other character. Now if you have seen the dub, can you tell me how 'Fabu-Vinny' is so different to 'Jackson'. Different name, similar purpose. He may not have made his plans for the Johto League at the point of "The Legend of Thunder", though Part Three airs tomorrow, and any announcements would be made then. The characters list is not to critisise the dubbing. It is to describe the characters and explain their actions. The Controversy section is for the critism! Sonic Mew 20:32, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

And after the controversy section was added, I stopped criticising the dubbing in the characters section. As for your question of "sub or dub", the answer is neither: Raw Japanese. Yes, Nyasu is more philosophical than Meowth, and James is more flamboyant than James, and Myuutsuu is less shallow than Mewtwo, but for the most part the characters aren't all that different. Ash and Satoshi are both annoying Mary Sues; Misty and Kasumi are both bossy; Brock and Takeshi are both girl-crazy Gym Leaders; and so forth. As for "Jackson" being an alias, when you see that Eusine was also given a new name in Chronicles, it seems apparent that 4Kids either forgot about the previous names or just plain didn't care. If the third part says anything about him using an alias in the Silver Conference, then it will be dub-canon; as of this time, however, it's just speculation by fans who refuse to admit that their precious dubbers can make mistakes. Ketsuban 21:39, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

You live in America, and you haven't seen Pokémon Chronicles yet. See? I am intelligent! Now maybe it was a mistake, but the key thing is that it can be explained. If we take this from the view of Chronicles, Jimmy and Marina definately see him as Vincent. His attempts to impress her include trying cooler names. (I assume Marina had a crush on Lance in Japan, but did Jun'ichi call himself anything like fabu-Jun'ichi?) And Eusine is one letter. Maybe they just mis-heard it? The different set of writers theory makes sense.

They cut a huge chunk off of the end, (which might be put back on the DVD,) so Vincent has said nothing. But it is still "probably" the reason. It is from the Chronicles point of view, anyway. Sonic Mew 16:16, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

What did I just say? Yes, I have seen it. From what I've read, the plot wasn't changed; merely the names of Jackson, Yoshi, Dani, and Eusine; and Hun's gender. Ketsuban 19:17, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

What did I just say? You have seen the original. I have seen the dub, which is officially Pokémon Chronicles. So does he call himself fabu-Jun'ichi? Yoshi and Dani were never canon as the dub names, even if 'Jackson' was talking about Jimmy and Marina in the original. The original is not the dub. The scripts differ. Sonic Mew 20:41, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

Of course the scripts differ, they're in different languages. Yoshi and Dani were their canon dub names just as Jackson was Jun'ichi's and Eusine was Minaki's. Just because they were changed to something else doesn't mean they weren't canon at one point. And as a matter of fact, Jun'ichi referred to himself as "Jun'ichi-sama" when he first showed up in the original version of The Legend of Thunder, parallelling Marina's way of calling Lance "Wataru-sama". Ketsuban 23:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

In fact, in the dub they are just two random names for family members, (or pet dinosaurs!) Did the dub ever say this? No. So stop adding it in. And dinosaurs don't exist in the Pokemon world. Ketsuban 22:47, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

It could be a baby Tropius for all you know! But you don't know. You have never seen Pokémon Chronicles, so stop acting like you have a far superior knowledhge. Because you don't. End of story. Sonic Mew 15:35, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Just because "Raikou: Ikazuchi no Densetsu" isn't called the same thing in two different languages (which is a given), doesn't make your knowledge of the show all-encompasing. I am not acting like I have superior knowledge; I'm merely pointing out that those were the names originally given to the characters and that 4Kids changed what they called them. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Ketsuban (is not better than better you, but can't admit it) 22:42, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Because you can't accept that there is an explanation, and that you can have a full knowledge of an American show by watching its Japanese counterpart. From what I have seen on message boards, people agree more with my side than yours, especially over Jimmy and Marina. Sonic Mew 13:55, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

There is an explanation, and it's that the dubbers messed up. And I really don't care what people on message boards are saying, unless they work for 4Kids. Ketsuban (...) 19:30, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That is an explanation, and one that I have put in the article, but there is an in-show explanation as well. The fact that most of the fan-base agrees with me should mean something to you. Sonic Mew 21:13, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Third opinion

OK, can I invite each of you to say, clearly and briefly, what you feel should and should not be in the article. Please don't respond to each other's statements, just make your own positions clear. Dan100 21:43, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

My opinion is that the article should simply state that Vincent, Jimmy, Marina, and Eugene were previously known in English as Jackson, Yoshi, Dani, and Eusine, without giving any reason as fact (it would be fine to say, "Some fans have speculated..."), since there has been no explanation given by anybody who has anything to do with the show, only by fans (whose opinions don't matter when it comes to canon). Ketsuban (is better than you) 21:56, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My opinion is that the article should state that Vincent, Jimmy, Marina, and Eugene were previously known by different names in the Controversy section, while giving in-show reasons elsewhere. It was never canon that Yoshi and Dani were Jimmy and Marina, that was just assumed as they were mentioned at the same time in the original. The original, and changes to the original, aren't important outside of the Controversy section as it is an American show. There is, however, an explanation for 'Jackson' becoming 'Vincent', which helps to explain his personality in the Character list. We don't have any word from 4Kids, so we have to come to our conclusions, so even them messing up isn't canon. Sonic Mew 07:30, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

OK, in the interests of presenting a neutral point of view, I suggest that when the names are first mentioned, the alternate names should also be given, with a note saying "see the Controversy section for more explanation". In the Controversy section, fully explore the issue. Perhaps state that there has been no word from the makers of the show (4Kids, right?), but that fans have made explanations, with the rider that only information from the makers can be regarded as canon. Dan100 10:22, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Works for me. (It's extremely arrogant to say that just because the majority of fans think something, it's true. I mean, look at all the Invader Zim fans who keep saying that Dib's last name is Membrane.) Ketsuban (is better than you) 22:44, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's fine. (And it isn't POV to say you haven't watched the American show. You haven't!) Sonic Mew 15:31, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, can we leave the logos alone?

I just wanted you to know that here and on the main Pokémon pages, the current logo being used is the correct one. Someone had been switching to the "Gotta catch 'em all" logo and it just can be used as a "classic" logo on the main page in the description of the motto. Thanks. User:NoseNuggets 10:08 AM EDT 5/25/05

In Pokémon Chronicles, they use the first one, complete with "Gotta Catch 'em all". If someone can get that one for this page, it would make it more accurate. Sonic Mew 16:09, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

Sorted. Somone added it to the main Pokémon page, so I've put that one here. Sonic Mew 16:30, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

Random user comment: Okay, I will just say this; yes, it was a different 4Kids dubbing the Pokemon Chronicles. And since Jun'ichi and Minaki only appeared in one episode each, and were dubbed "Jackson" and "Eusine" (from the Pokemon Crystal game) respectively, (and Kenta Marina were supposably (probably) referred to by Jun'ichi as "Yoshi" and "Dani"), this 4Kids probably didn't know about it. However, it continues to irritate me that some people think that this is an excuse. There is no excuse for such stupidity. If a different company was dubbing it, they should have asked the previous dubbers about it, or asked the Japanese creators. End of story.

Producers

Just wanted to note that the production team, although still part of 4Kids, is NOT the usual team dubbing it. Alfred R. Kahn, Norman J. Grossfeld and Kathy Borland are not responsible for the dubbing of it. I just have a little trouble incorporating that into text. Hmm. --Tetsuya-san 13:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

History Conflict

The opening paragraph and the History both mention the same thing about when it was aired. It only needs it once really. --Highway 22:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Edits

I changed the character listings into -

• Major Characters
• Minor Characters
• Team Rocket Villains

I've also alphabetised all of the entries. And added to a number of them. --Highway 22:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Volume Four

I've edited with details on Volume Four and the 1-3 box set. Can anyone provide a more specific date for Volume Four's release? Serebii.net has a February update which lists it as "recent", so I suspect it'll be either January or February of this year. Could anyone shed any light on why Play.com has a totally different image to the actual boxart for Volume Four? Could it be that there are two versions of the same volume? Outside of Play.com's website (and including the disk they sent me) I've only seen the Bulbasaur cover, their image being the box set art. --L T Dangerous 13:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The copy I got from Play.com also has the Bulbasaur artwork, so I'm guessing that they are just using a preliminary image.

As for the release date, Bulbanews says January 30^th. --Sonic Mew 19:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

G M S

Where is Gilbert M Skacary? Gilbert M Skacary is one of the main stars of the show , how come he can't be there? find out moreGilbert's Pokemon

No he isn't. He is just a fanmade character that does not belong in a list for characters who actually appear in the series. --Sonic Mew 16:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Richie/Ritchie

Oh god. Here we go again. Puzzle League and the Chronicles subtitles use "Ritchie" but Pokemon.com uses "Richie". As the accuracy of Pokemon.com is questionable, I say we go with Ritchie. Tsutarja494, the Grass Snake Editor (talk | contribs) 13:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Officer Jenny

This series was dubbed when Lee Quick (the original voice of Officer Jenny) was still with 4Kids. Jamie Owens didn't become the new Officer Jenny voice til The Ribbon Cup Caper was dubbed into English. Matthew Cantrell (talk) 01:51, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Update?

I just recently heard of this spin-off series and came here to learn more about it, but the intro is really outdated. I was sad when I went to Cartoon Network's page and couldn't find the live stream. Could you possibly update it please? That would be wonderful. Heartofadarkrose (talk) 10:40, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Dates

When going through this article I've noticed that the dates are in following format: MM/DD/YYYY, as far as I know the wikipedia way of writing dates, this isn't it.

I've looked for the template of the episode list, and find it here. Where they use {{start date|1998|09|21}} as format.

Split the Page

I think the page should be split as the episodes differ between Japanese and the international dubs. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:58, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@ValenciaThunderbolt: You mean like in Japanese version, they didn't release "Legend of Thunder" and "Pikachu Winter Vacation"? Ajeeb Prani (talk) 15:37, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. There should be "Pocket Monsters: Side Stories" and "Pokémon Chronicles". ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:40, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Then Be bold and spilt it. Ajeeb Prani (talk) 15:43, 3 June 2023 (UTC) I have split them. Ajeeb Prani (talk) 17:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)