Talk:Political funding in Ireland

Requested move 23 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Closing as no consensus after being listed for 3 weeks (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk) 20:04, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

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Political funding in Ireland → Political funding in the Republic of Ireland – Rename in line with Elections in the Republic of Ireland‎, Parliamentary constituencies in the Republic of Ireland‎, Demographics of the Republic of Ireland‎, Education in the Republic of Ireland‎ etc. 98.122.20.56 (talk) 03:32, 23 October 2016 (UTC)--Relisting. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 08:49, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

• Rename in line with Elections in the Republic of Ireland‎, Parliamentary constituencies in the Republic of Ireland‎, Demographics of the Republic of Ireland‎, Education in the Republic of Ireland‎ etc. --98.122.20.56 (talk) 03:32, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose – Full disclosure, I'm Irish, so this will be most interesting. I chanced upon this request while making my own request with respect to Nuclear energy in the Republic of Ireland. In all these cases however I am struck with how there is no country with the name "republic of Ireland". To me, the issue is akin to the United States of America, or America. A name that, if one so wished, one could also try to construe to suggest that it covers the entirety of the American continent, when we all know it doesn't.

Therefore this article, like all those you list should be renamed in line with the official policy now in place between these islands of ours:

• Ireland–United Kingdom relations
• Energy in Ireland etc.

Boundarylayer (talk) 00:39, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Comment: That's kind of odd, because I seem to recall living right next door to a country called the Republic of Ireland. Of course, the country, being a proper noun, had a capital 'R' in Republic. (a capital 'O' for 'of' is unnecessary) I'm Irish also, by the way.

I do notice that the article Energy in Ireland (while it's a confusing title... like Energy in Africa ..or Energy in Africa?) does state at the very top that the article refers specifically to the Republic of Ireland (I think that turns blue and has no redirect). That country is named in the Republic of Ireland Act. The country prefers to use the name of the island as its description, for political advantage (as confessed in the Dáil around WWII).

Before semantics are entered into, please note that a name is a description. Also note that (full disclosure) I do not agree with the policy of robbing the rest of the Irish from the island (by calling one part of it 'Ireland'), I also disagree with referring to Northern Ireland as 'Ulster' - for exactly the same reason. HOWEVER, please also note that my interest here lies almost exclusively with the simple matter of clarity for the readers' sakes. And finally, I'm not aware of many Irish people objecting to the name 'Republic of Ireland', other than those who have political reason to object - those tend to be extremists. This is kinda odd also, because many of those same extremists do not recognise the legitimacy of either of the two states in Ireland! So why should they care?! Well, the simple truth is that they would like to avoid any admission that the northern state exists, and eradicate any reference to it "in the minds of foreigners". The ironic fact is that many so-called 'loyalists' are quick to reject any notion of Irishness also.

Anyway, political opinion aside, I'm not sure a website that attempts strongly to remain an encyclopaedia should be in the business of assuming anything (even that 'America' refers to the USA specifically, tbh). I think an encyclopaedia should be in the business of being clear and unambiguous, so that there is little or no doubt in a reader's mind. I would, personally, insist on making sure there's an unambiguous description (or name, if you prefer) for both North and South Korea. I would also refer to the USA as often as possible, in preference to 'America', unless it's quoting a legal document, or a quotation or book title etc. Same for the Republic of Ireland.

To sum up, I have revealed myself to be Irish also... and gone further with my full disclosure of my thought, and that of others, on that one aspect of politics on the island. We could discuss the political situation ad nauseam. However, here all I am after is consistency, as I've said, and clarity. We cannot assume anything on behalf of the readers. On a personal level, I'm extremely aware that confusion already exists, without this encyclopaedia increasing that confusion. --98.122.20.56 (talk) 07:02, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support for specificity and consistency. And with respect to the above commenter's point, there's a good reason we don't have an article titled "Campaign finance in America". 207.161.217.209 (talk) 20:27, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose - the name of the State referred to here is simply "Ireland"; RoI is simply a "description". Sarah777 (talk) 10:44, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Comment I pre-empted your "description" evaluation in a comment, which leads me to believe that you had no interest in reading what I had to say. Perhaps I'm wrong. I hope not. It does indeed say in the Republic of Ireland Act (ironically named, perhaps?) that Republic of Ireland is a "description". However, a name is nothing more than a description (as I said above). Republic of Ireland is a name, used by that state itself. It is particularly used when problems of ambiguity might arise - and that is most definitely the case here: political funding in Ireland, as a title (or 'name' or 'description'), is ambiguous and will most assuredly lead to confusion.

To be clear: there was already an island called Ireland, for centuries before there was a country that wanted everyone to call it 'Ireland'. It also seems to be a policy of Wikipedia that the name (or description) that the state successfully promotes {"Ireland") is differentiated from the name of the island (Ireland) by using the alternative name (or description, "Republic of Ireland") provided by the very government of the state in question.

There are plenty of examples to be found throughout Wikipedia. However, it does not appear to be consistent. This is an absurd situation, confusing readers. Can you describe Demographics of Zambia or Demographics of Zambia for me? Or Campaign finance in America, as 207 suggested?

No, because precedents have been set in order to make it clear which political entity is being discussed when there is confusion. I see no reason to disguise the nature of the southern Irish state, other than specifically for political obfuscation, as I've suggested rather poorly above.

By all means, Sarah, go ahead and attempt a block change of all articles that refer to "in the Republic of Ireland" to "in Ireland", and watch the confusion and inconsistency grow... what's the population of Ireland? Two answers for that. What's the average age of the population of Ireland? Two answers again. What unit of measurement is used for speed limit signs in Ireland? Once again, two answers. If you say "kph", you're flatly incorrect. How many universities in Ireland?

Now as a matter of record it has been a deliberate confusion on the part of the southern state, and this confusion is particularly adhered to by extremist Republicans. However, that isn't the fault of Wikipedia. Ironically, the southern state also made available a name which could satisfy ambiguity problems - a name which that state often employs itself.[1][2][3] --98.122.20.56 (talk) 01:43, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support for consistency and clarity. Number 57 17:24, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose; we don't have and are unlikely to have Political funding in Northern Ireland so it is totally unnecessary to differentiate between the two entities. That would really be the only reason for using the descriptive name. ww2censor (talk) 18:29, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.