Talk:Ponderosa and Bonanza Steakhouses

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I threw up at a Ponderosa. Richardkselby 16:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Good for you. Do you use the toilet by yourself too? Modor 00:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)Modor

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This isn't even the current Ponderosa logo, and hasn't been for some time, since at least 2003. It's not listed as such.Jgera5 04:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Bonanza was founded in 1963 according to the text and Poderosa in 1968 but in the Infobar is says, under the Ponderosa logo, that it was founded in 1965. Either 1963 or 1968 is the founding date depending on whether you mean Bonanza or Ponderosa, but neither was founded in 1965. Deedeebee (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 12:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC).

This is wrong....

"Ponderosa began operations to Canada in 1977, amid little apparent demand in the US, and remained in Canada until 1984..."

Because there was still a Ponderosa in Cornwall, Ontario until approx. 1986, which is also the last time I ate at the Canadian location, also, there was still a Ponderosa in Bedford, Nova Scotia until approx. 2008. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.188.65.145 (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

It also seems to imply there were no "Pondersoa"s in the US, which I think is wrong. There was a chain in the US Southeast in the 1960s with a catchy jingle: "Ponderosa Steakhouse Meet Your Friends There, Where Good Eatin' is a Family Affair!". I came to WP to find the history of *that* chain. Could someone verify they are the same?75.112.74.173 (talk) 20:20, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 4 December 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved to Ponderosa and Bonanza Steakhouses. The nom finds that to be an acceptable alternative. Rather than "&", the word "and" is used because it has not been established that "&" is predominately used in reliable secondary sources. As is usual for a result like this, a new RM can be opened at any time to garner consensus for a better title if one exists. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed.  ^put'r there  01:48, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

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Ponderosa Steakhouse and Bonanza Steakhouse → Ponderosa Steakhouse – None of the establishments in this chain are/were named "Ponderosa Steakhouse and Bonanza Steakhouse". Each is branded either "Ponderosa Steakhouse" or "Bonanza Steakhouse", but never both nor any combination of the two names. Per WP:CONCISE, either name would be a preferable title to the combined title (with the other as a redirect, naturally). As for which brand to choose as the title, there are currently Bonanza restaurants only within the United States while there are also Ponderosa restaurants in Puerto Rico, the Middle East, and Taiwan. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 22:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 14:41, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

• Or Homestyle Dining (with redirects, of course)? —BarrelProof (talk) 01:19, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Or Move to Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouses, per the official website https://www.pon-bon.com/, which says "©2018 Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouses" at the bottom, and has an "Our Story" page that says "Welcome to Ponderosa & Bonanza Country. Where today’s families find the spirit of the Old West, the flavors they crave, and something-for-everyone variety. Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouses serve great steaks, seafood and ..." and has a Contact Us page which uses the contact addressee name "Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouses" and uses the phrase in many places, as in "Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouse or any of its employees ..." —BarrelProof (talk) 01:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
• Interesting case mirrored at Checkers and Rally's. The current title is a bit misleading and a move to Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouses would be a slight improvement. The proposed move to Ponderosa Steakhouse could implicitly warrant a split off of Bonanza Steakhouse. Homestyle Dining wouldn't serve readers as well since the vast majority of the article is not about that entity. —  AjaxSmack  03:04, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

  Checkers Drive-In Restaurants would make a lot of sense for that other one, since that's the actual name of the company. Redirects that mention Rally's would be fine, and the logo shown there would make it clear to people when they got there that it's about Rally's too if that's what they're after. Dicklyon (talk) 03:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose – the "concise" argument seems inapplicable here, as it fails to describe the topic. Is there a guideline about avoiding such "and" titles? Would Ponderosa and Bonanza Steakhouses be any better? Dicklyon (talk) 03:04, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

  That guideline is WP:AND. It lists Hellmann's and Best Foods as an example, which does seem to contradict my argument, but considering that guideline I think a name such as Ponderosa and Bonanza Steakhouses would indeed be better than my proposal and less awkward/redundant than the current title. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 15:02, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

  That "guideline" is actually on the policy page. And it shouldn't be for several reasons, see #Discussion below. Trying to follow it has completely stuffed up our coverage of billiards and other cue sports. To give balkline and straight rail as an example to be followed is incredibly bad advice. Andrewa (talk) 18:54, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• Support. As there's no such thing as a Ponderosa Steakhouse and Bonanza Steakhouse, the current title is simply inaccurate (and this might apply to other examples given above as well; Two wrongs don't make a right). Either Ponderosa Steakhouse or Bonanza Steakhouse would do for a title, with the other redirecting to a section; Both currently redirect here. There seems no call to split the article, but that's the other option. This proposal does require a little reformatting of the article, but no change of scope. Andrewa (talk) 14:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose singling out one division over the other. Ponderosa & Bonanza Steakhouses seems like an acceptable solution (per WP:AMPERSAND, we should retain it because this collective entity is referred to as a proper noun. -- Netoholic @ 08:41, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
  • this collective entity is referred to as a proper noun... Where? I admit I was assuming it was a Wikipediaism. If reliable secondary sources use the phrase, then that's a different story. But none of the current twelve references and three external links use the name. The first external link appears to only because we pipe the link (and in any case that is a primary source). Andrewa (talk) 15:09, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

The more I look the messier this gets. Another example given at wp:AND (a section of the article title policy) is Balkline and straight rail. But that's an incredible mess, and it looks to me as if the poor choice of this article scope (and hence the title Balkline and straight rail) is the key issue here. Balkline is a very dubious DAB. Balkline billiards should probably redirect to a section of billiards, or may be a good article topic itself... it certainly should not just redirect to the definition at Glossary of cue sports terms as currently. But so help me... billiards is a redirect to cue sports. Will we next redirect baseball to bat sports? The mind boggles!

In summary, to have such a mess as one of the examples at WP:AT makes me suspect that this area of the policy is seriously broken. Andrewa (talk) 00:50, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

It seems silly to refer to WP:AND as "policy", even if it happens to be on a policy page (where most of what's there is convention and guideline). It advises to try to avoid "and", but says it's sometimes OK. Does it need to be more prescriptive than that? Dicklyon (talk) 05:17, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Agree. Perhaps this bit should be split out of WP:AT. I still think that to have it on the policy page is seriously busted. Andrewa (talk) 15:09, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 July 7#🎱 might be relevant? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:58, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Very relevant, thank you. Yes, the mess continues and deepens. Andrewa (talk) 22:52, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

FAT brands redirects here but should have its own page.

From https://ir.fatbrands.com/company/overview/default.aspx

FAT Brands is a leading, global, multi-brand, restaurant franchising company that strategically develops, markets, and acquires restaurant concepts worldwide. We currently operate Fatburger, Buffalo’s Cafe, Buffalo's Express, Hurricane Grill & Wings, Yalla Mediterranean, Ponderosa and Bonanza Steakhouses, and Elevation Burger that have over 300 locations open and more than 300 under development in 32 countries. Wfdexter (talk) 18:08, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

@Wfdexter, FAT Brands has its own page. P37307 (talk) 06:45, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I don’t believe it did in 2019 but agree it does now. Wfdexter (talk) 20:00, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Ponderosa Halifax

There was still a Ponderosa in Halifax, Nova Scotia, technically Bedford, NS, it appeared to still be operating in early 2008, but then closed, I think it may have been a completely privately owned location. I saw a similar thing in Ottawa, ON with a Radio Shack store. 24.244.29.206 (talk) 06:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)