Talk:Port Tobacco

Requested move 15 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Although some support the move, and some opose it, I generally see a consensus that this article should be re-merged into Port Tobacco Village, Maryland, so that should go ahead and there's no point moving this in the meantime. Once that's done, this page can become a redirect. I will restore the redirect from Port Tobacco, Maryland to Port Tobacco Village, Maryland immediately.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:07, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

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Port Tobacco → Port Tobacco, Maryland – Per WP:USPLACE, title should include the state name. Dough4872 03:21, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

• Support or Port Tobacco, Maryland (unincorporated community) per Category:Unincorporated communities in Charles County, Maryland In ictu oculi (talk) 07:48, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
• Support per In ictu oculi. AjaxSmack makes an interesting point that this article is not the primary topic. In that case I'll have to Oppose this move, but note that the name should be changed, as both Port Tobacco and Port Tobacco, Maryland should redirect to the village, or should direct to a dab page if neither is the primary topic. I don't agree that we should ignore WP:USPLACE as has been suggested below by В²C, but rather that a disambiguator is probably appropriate here. Perhaps Port Tobacco, Maryland (unincorporated community) but that seems to lack conciseness. Any other suggestions?  InsertCleverPhraseHere  11:42, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Yes, your suggestion lacks conciseness, LOL! What's wrong with, leave well enough alone?. Why do we have to change this perfectly reasonable title to something we can't even easily conjure? Restore Port Tobacco, Maryland as a redirect to Port Tobacco Village, Maryland and have both articles link to each other. Clean, simple, useful. If it ain't broke... --В²C ☎ 07:28, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

WP:USPLACE overrides WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, it cannot and does not apply to US place articles - by default it can only be used to apply to WP:PRIMARYREDIRECTs. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:26, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

WP:USPLACE does not "override" WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:28, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

• Support - Per nominator. Meatsgains (talk) 22:32, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
• Comment – this kind of move does not need an RM discussion; just do it; use technical request if needed. Dicklyon (talk) 02:37, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose (for now) per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. There is another Port Tobacco, Maryland. The incorporated section of Port Tobacco, Port Tobacco Village, Maryland, is often <smll>(usually?) simply called "Port Tobacco, Maryland". The article in question here is a relatively recent creation "meant to clarify difference between the incorporated town of Port Tobacco Village from the surrounding, unincorporated areas of 'Port Tobacco'" according to its creator. Before that, Port Tobacco, Maryland redirected to the village article. Primary topic for the unincorporated hinterlands of the town needs to be established and, if this move is carried out, Hatnotes, a re-merge (my preference) or some other action might be in order. I hope ​​​​​previous discussants will address this issue. —  AjaxSmack  16:37, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks for that clarification. I strike my comment. Dicklyon (talk) 20:16, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification yes - per Category:Unincorporated communities in Charles County, Maryland cannot see the need to split. So re-merge. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:59, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is either the only use of Port Tobacco on WP, or the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC per AjaxSmack. Either way, there is no need for disambiguating the name in the title. What about WP:USPLACE? WP:IAR because it's a silly, long, convoluted and totally unnecessary guideline. What USPLACE should do is reflect the underlying guideline for all articles on WP, including most other city articles: Use the plain unadorned common name of the topic (e.g., the current title, Port Tobacco) for the title unless the name is ambiguous and the topic is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for that name. --В²C ☎ 23:04, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
• Support appending the state per WP:USPACE, and for consistency with practically every community in Maryland. What's a little unclear is whether two articles are needed and (if not) should it be at Port Tobacco, Maryland or Port Tobacco Village, Maryland.

  The USGS GNIS notes that the populated place in Maryland known as Port Tobacco was incorporated as Port Tobacco Village, and in both cases gives the location as the same small collection of homes at the north end of Chapel Point Road near Maryland Route 6, so geographically I'm not sure that distinguishing the two is necessary. The only distinction as far as the USGS is concerned seems to be that one feature is the general populated place and the other is the formal incorporation of that place.

  As to the creator's comment that sites like St. Ignatius Church and Rose Hill Manor are "within" the unincorporated community of Port Tobacco, such a community by definition has no legal boundaries, so the statement becomes subjective; they are, however, certainly in the vicinity. Title-wise, I favor re-merging to a single article at either Port Tobacco, Maryland or Port Tobacco Village, Maryland. ╠╣uw [talk] 15:33, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

• If there is a re-merge, please keep the much longer edit history of Port Tobacco Village, Maryland (i.e. merge Port Tobacco into Port Tobacco Village, Maryland and then move that article to Port Tobacco, Maryland if desired). —  AjaxSmack  01:14, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Good suggestion. ╠╣uw [talk] 09:16, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

• Move to Port Tobacco (unincorporated community), Maryland per WP:USPLACE (see also Frenchtown (unincorporated community), Maryland). I can believe that this is not the primary topic for Port Tobacco, so that Port Tobacco and Port Tobacco, Maryland both redirect to the town. The town should also keep the official name as the title. However, I don't think they should be merged, because the two articles do have slightly different scopes. There are plenty of unincorporated communities that have articles even though they overlap with incorporated areas. kennethaw88 • talk 01:54, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
• Support per WP:USPLACE. Places in the United States use the state's name. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:50, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. this is a bit of a mess, but I don't see the point in claiming in the proposed title, which suggests that this historic site/unincorporated community is really distinct from Port Tobacco Village, Maryland, a town of 13 in the same place that is almost always referred to as "Port Tobacco". It would be better to re-merge this article back with the other.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:28, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.