Talk:Portland Winterhawks

Incorrect article?

Section removed from article:

The Portland Rosebuds were an ice hockey team based in Portland, Oregon which played in the Pacific Coast Hockey Association from 1914 to 1918. Later, the name was reborn when the Regina Capitals moved to Portland for the 1925-26 WHA season, the final one for the Western Hockey Association. In 1916 they became the first United States based team to participate in the Stanley Cup Finals. Their home arena was the Portland Ice Arena. They later were sold to Chicago and became the Blackhawks.

I removed the previous section from the article, as it appears to be meant for a different article? Maybe not? Flibirigit 03:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Umm, yeah. That is all factually correct to the best of my knowledge, but has absolutely nothing to do with the Portland Winter Hawks. Seems to me that the author might have chosen to put it in this article for historical perspective on Portland hockey, but it would be better suited as a stub article of its own. Resolute 04:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

So what to do with it? Move it to Portland Rosebuds? Flibirigit 05:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I suppose not, as this is a virtually exact copy of that article already. I was searching for Portland Rose Buds last night... for no apparent reason it seems. Guess it just needed to be pruned from the Winter Hawks article. Resolute 14:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• I have reorganized the Rosebuds article, adding a note about players transferring to Chicago. Flibirigit 20:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Portlandwinterhawks.gif

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• Fair use completed. Flibirigit 17:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:HOCKEY's diacritics compromise

It was agreed at WP:HOCKEY, that we'd hide diacritics on All North American based hockey articles. At the moment Djsasso is breaching that agreement, by forcing diacritics being shown on a player in this article's roster. GoodDay (talk) 17:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not forcing anything. I reverted using BRD. The next step is discussion. You have spent the last year arguing that our compromise is no good and both you and Dolovis made sure the the rest of the wiki weighed in on the situation saying that our compromise was not valid or binding. As such since we have a picture of the player in his official jersey which has diacritics on it. That being a reliable source for how the league officially spells his name in English it should be left as is with the diacritics. -DJSasso (talk) 17:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Will you please respect WP:HOCKEY's compromise & revert yourself? GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Please bring some facts to the discussion that support your argument for removing them. You voted to remove diacritics from players pages in Request for Moves which is against the compromise. This is my !vote against not having them in this instance which is no different from what you have done. So please bring some reliable sources or arguments that support your desired outcome. -DJSasso (talk) 17:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I already told you, I've no interest in the player bios anymore -- So stop bring it up. Is this a North American based article? GoodDay (talk) 17:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Irrelevant. You need to make your case why this article shouldn't have them. -DJSasso (talk) 17:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:HOCKEY (which covers this article) has a diacritics compromise in place, which calls for diacritics to not be used on North American based articles. That compromise should be respected. GoodDay (talk) 17:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The Hockey project page seems pretty clear - no diacritics at the Hockey Team pages. A discussion should either take place at the project page to test if a change in consensus has occurred, or the consensus reached at the project page should simply be accepted. The reasoning above by Djsasso is not making a case based on this particular team, but rather seems to be making a larger point about the "compromise". --HighKing (talk) 18:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, it's a WP:HOCKEY matter. Anyways, I'm going to follow my mentors advise & give others a chance to input. GoodDay (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Not at all. I believe this is a specific case. I think this particular page should use them for this one players name because we have reliable sources that indicate this is how this team spells his name. I am open to anyone discussing this matter. Its been advertised at this point on the talk page at the hockey project so anyone from there is able to come here and discuss the topic. -DJSasso (talk) 18:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

• Well ... my views on diacritics aside (and as DJ has correctly pointed out, those of us who argued that the compromise was a dead letter don't have much of a case in now defending its sanctity), if the player in question has diacritics on his Winterhawks' jersey, that satisfies one of the fundamentals we've been arguing all along - that how teams and leagues in English-language countries render their players names should be respected under WP:COMMONNAME. Since the player's name is being rendered with diacriticals, that's provably a COMMONNAME usage. Ravenswing 18:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

• On the roster page [1] or the player's page [2] of the team's web site, they omit the diacritic. So it's not like there is some consistency here. So, I'd suggest the diacritic is not a given. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

  Yup I certainly do admit that. But I am guessing the player themself has a greater say on the Jersey lettering than they do on the website which is likely done by some random web editor. I am not saying which is right or wrong. But it is certainly something to consider. One of the key arguments against having them has always been the jerseys did not have them, so in an instance like this, one does have to take consideration of it. -DJSasso (talk) 20:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

  Other than the jersey, I think it's slim pickings for an English source with the Swiss spelling. Eliteprospects.com and IIHF does, hockeydb.com, WHL, hockeysfuture.com doesn't, and the media (Globe and Mail, Vancouver Sun, etc. don't, Camrose Canadian(surprise!) does) mostly does not. I don't think that one spelling on one jersey is the be-all end-all. We should take note of it, though. It might be a case of pick and choose which is the best spelling if you go for the jersey. Right now, I would surmise that Bartschi is the most common in English. It seems clear that his Swiss spelling is Bärtschi, but his English spelling is still unclear. Is the evidence here enough to go against the guideline? Not solid, I'd say. I'd say you are most likely in the wrong, and it was probably unnecessary to revert GoodDay if we are to stay with the guideline. To me, it looks like Baertschi will end up the most common spelling, considering the Flames and the NHL use it. I think his being picked in the first round by the NHL is what made him notable to Wikipedia. Time will tell, of course. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 20:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

  Urk. Just realized. I was defending GoodDay. Help me. ;-> ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 20:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

• It seems webmasters are often lazier than the print people these days. For instance, all of the print material I have from the WJHCs uses diacritics for Swiss, Swedish, Finnish and Danish names (including Bärtschi), but parts of the IIHF website does not. On the topic, however, I would note GoodDay that the basis by which our compromise guideline stands is the argument that North American sources do not use diacritics. It is not a concrete, never-to-be-changed rule. However, there is an argument that usage is mixed at best. As such, I have no issue with using either Bärtschi or Baertschi on this article. The latter might be better for promoting harmony, however. (Also note that "Bartschi" is incorrect, per the player's own statements in a recent issue of The Hockey News. Simply dropping the diacritic introduces an error). Resolute 20:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

  Yup I am happy with either Bärtschi or Baertschi and since the player themself has made a statement that Bartschi is wrong then I would definitely want it one of the other two. -DJSasso (talk) 20:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

  Fine. I suggest Baertschi. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 20:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)