Talk:Presidential state car (United States)

How does the cat get to Berlin?

When Obama was in Berlin today, he used the cadillac with the plate 800-002. How did this car make his way to Berlin? --JMS (talk) 19:51, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

@J-m.s: By plane, as always. Quite many people fly with their cars. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii 00:23, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

First armored version

On December 8, 1941, after the Pearl Harbor attack, the regular Presidential limo was still not armored, and at the time, there was a rule that a government car could not be bought for more than $750, not allowing the quick acquisition of an armored limo. This lead to the requisitioning of Al Capone's armored car, a 1928 Cadillac V-8 Town Sedan, confiscated for his tax evasion, for use until a proper armored limo was available. This allowed the Secret Service to protect the President on the way to his famous address to Congress. Al Capone's car would be the first armored car used by the President of the United States, predecessor to armored beastly limos of modern presidents.

-- 65.94.168.229 (talk) 05:21, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

References

US Secret Service code name of JFK's state car

On 7 November, VeenM64 (talk · contribs) changed references to President Kennedy's state car from "X-100" to "SS-100-X" citing no reliable sources, but instead leaving in-place the reference to Popular Mechanics. 43 minutes later, I reverted them saying, "- different Secret Service code name for the X-100 IAW sourcing". An hour or so ago, the same editor replaced their edits, saying "Wikipedia has an actual article with that name."

We do have an article located at SS-100-X. It has three reliable sources (that I'd like to mine for future inclusion in this article). Only one of the four content sources refers to an "SS-100-X", and Old Cars Weekly bears no hallmarks of being a reliable source. Furthermore, Google Searching for "'SS-100-X' Kennedy" and "'X-100' Kennedy" finds 4.6 times as many results for the latter.

I've reverted VeenM64's most recent edit, and pointed them to this discussion. If they or anyone else would like to discuss the matter, I'll be happy to reply here. — fourthords | =Λ= | 23:11, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

In spite of all that, the disambiguation page X100 makes absolutely no mention of Kennedy's car. VeenM64 (talk) 00:08, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Now it does. — fourthords | =Λ= | 05:11, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Did it happen

Article currently reads in part The new version of the executive limousine was expected to debut at the inauguration of Donald Trump on January 20, 2017. In view of this being a fairly active talk page, I'm hoping there's someone (probably American) who can fix that more easily than this Aussie can. TIA Andrewa (talk) 04:40, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

To answer your question: I don't know. If it did, I've seen no reliable sources saying so. I've also seen no reliable sources saying it didn't. Currently, our best verified information is that the new model was expected, full stop. — fourthords | =Λ= | 19:01, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Surely someone noted whether it was the old car or the new one at the inauguration? And commented to that effect in the press? The current article looks silly. Andrewa (talk) 16:47, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

@Andrewa:@Fourthords: Trump haven't received the new car yet. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 21:33, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Can you source that? If so, let's update the article. It's still out of date. Andrewa (talk) 01:00, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Well, as of 12 April 2018, that is true. — fourthords | =Λ= | 02:09, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Chrysler.

What is this? http://imperialclub.org/Yr/1956/Limo/Richard/index.htm --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 21:34, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

That appears to be a fansite for the Imperial, Chrysler Imperial, and Chrysler New Yorker Brougham. By no means does it meet the standards of being a reliable source, so it has no bearing on this article at this time. — fourthords | =Λ= | 02:09, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

800 002

What is the history behind the DC license tag with the "800 002"? Does "800 002" have any special meaning? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.221.240 (talk) 22:24, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

The entire number "800 002" means "1" and that's means "Alpha". Why "One"?? Plus/add all numerals until you remain with single digit. See, 8+0+0+0+0+2=10. The add/plus 1+0=1. The last remain digit is 1, and stands for "First" or "Alpha". 197.186.5.91 (talk) 21:37, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Ω Gerald Uisso (talk) 21:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Bullet that struck Ronald Wilson Reagan ricocheted off 'The Beast'

I tweaked... (The limo) that transported President Ronald Wilson Reagan to the hospital after the attempted assassination thereof in March 1981 where the bullet from John Hinckley's gun ricocheted off 'The Beast'.<ref name="1993-01 Popular Mechanics" ] 2603:3020:BB8:D000:A01A:C32F:7B13:3210 (talk) 16:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

You did, but I reverted that addition because those claims (and the president's full name) aren't present in the cited source. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 19:45, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

DC License Plate?

What does the DC license plate have to do with the "Presidential (S)tate (C)ar"? (missing title case, by the way) The entire paragraph at the end of the "2009–2018 custom Cadillac" section needs to be stricken as it's an obvious ADHD moment (we all have them :) ) jrn-hsv (talk) 18:28, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

The government of that nation's capital petitioned for a change to the state car, and it was implemented. It's also just a feature of the car, described similarly to its armaments and armor. I don't see any reasons it shouldn't also be included. As for the capitalization, it seems to be merely a descriptive title as there is no one, single, unified or agreed-upon title for this specific category of vehicle; it's not capitalized because it's not (apparently) a proper noun. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 04:48, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

plates & Japan

With this edit on 6 October 2023 at 23:37 UTC, Savers Liner (talk · contribs) added prose about license plates. Larry Hockett (talk · contribs) reverted the edit, saying, this is about the plates on the presidential state car. I think Savers Liner's addition was actually about plates on the presidential state car: specifically which plates may or may not need to be affixed when the cars travel abroad (e.g. W's trip in 2007 as mentioned in the article). Now it certainly wasn't wrong to remove the information—it was entirely unsourced, but I just wanted to bring it up here in case somebody (perhaps even Savers Liner) could find sourcing for the initial claims. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 00:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

I thought it was off-topic, but I could be wrong. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter and I wouldn't fight it if it were reverted. Larry Hockett (Talk) 04:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Hey, it still might've been off-topic; I was just seeing some potential in there for legitimacy and wanted to give voice & reassurance to a new contributor's second edit. If nothing else, you were absolutely right to remove it (and you shouldn't be reverted) because there was nary a reliable source included. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 13:01, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

reorganization undo

Across three edits on 27 & 28 July 2024, Jonas1015119 (talk · contribs) made a number of edits that reorganized the page (among other things). I'm reverting most if not all of them, explaining them here (as an edit summary would be insufficient).

• In many places, images and infoboxes were divorced from the sections that discussed the same content, in contravention of MOS:SECTIONLOC.
• The 2001–2009 and 2009–2018 Cadillacs were separated from under the "History" section, despite being historical state cars.
• The section "History" was changed to "History of presidential state cars" in contravention of MOS:SECTIONSTYLE which says, "As a matter of consistent style, section headings should: […] Not redundantly refer back to the subject of the article, e.g., Early life, not Smith's early life or His early life."

There were also concerns about MOS:PUNCTSPACE, WP:TRANSPARENCY, WP:V, WP:NOR, MOS:VAR, introduction of ambiguity, and a few more. IAW WP:BRD, I'd recommend talking out any problems, issues, or improvements before making such sweeping changes, to avoid running afoul of these manuals and policies (or others). — Fourthords | =Λ= | 02:51, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, but a few things:

1. I added a number of Clear templates between subsections (which I understand some people may not like) specifically to better align images and infoboxes with their respective sections to help with legibility, in the current version some images appear up to two sections lower than they should be because those section are so short. I moved most of them with the visual editor, so in source they might appear to be above their respective heading, but that can be easily addressed and doesn't affect the articles appearance.
2. Starting with Bushs 2001 car, which was also the first to not be based on a production car but a truck bed, the name "Beast" has been applied to all modern presidential cars. I do think that similarity in construction, name and appearance would warrant the grouping, though I don't have too strong feelings about that. This also touches your third point.
3. Currently all "historic" models (even though the 2009 one is still in active use) are grouped under the history heading, with the current model having its own heading. This is not in line with the usual layout of car articles covering multiple vehicle generations (like Lincoln Continental; compare MOS:COMMONALITY with your MOS:VAR concerns). Either all cars should get an individual heading, or everything becomes a subheading, which understandably could not be called "History" since it includes the current car.

Regarding your concerns, (apart from my disdain for throwing lists of MOS and WP shortcuts at people), I don't think removing a few cases of sentence spacing violates PUNCTSPACE, linking LBJ in a white convertible to the sentence "President Johnson preferred white convertibles" (which is also entirely unsourced, though feel free to include it in a better way) violates TRANCPARENCY. I don't know what you mean by WP:V and WP:NOR since I didn't add content to the article (I clarified one sentence talking about President Ford and Ford Motor Company by using "they" instead of Ford to avoid ambiguity and updated one statement saying the car is still called Beast under Trump with its still called beast under Biden, which considering its the same car and just acknowledges the passage of time also isn't an issue). WP:BRD isn't policy, and I prefer people improving BOLD edits rather than exchanging essays about MOS concerns rather than addressing them. — jonas (talk) 14:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

In the bog-standard English Wikipedia UI, seen and read by the overwhelming majority of readers, there's only one image in the current version that begins even slightly off: File:RIMG0019.jpg is pushed slightly by the preceding section's File:George H. W. Bush presidential limousine 1989 (cropped).jpg, but that's still only a difference of two lines, not up to two sections lower. I'm not sure what you're seeing or how.

Starting with Bushs 2001 car, […] the name 'Beast' has been applied The article doesn't say that nicknaming began with the 2001 state car, only that it was so appelated. I do think that similarity in construction, name and appearance would warrant the grouping That declaration of similarity isn't supported by the article and its sources, except to say they're no longer production-model cars. Adding two instances of new third-level sections (such as ===Premade=== and ===Custom-built=== or similar) would avoid original research concerns. I don't see the need or benefit therefrom, but I certainly wouldn't object, either.

This is not in line with the usual layout of car articles covering multiple vehicle generations (like Lincoln Continental This isn't an article about a model of car covering multiple vehicle generations. This is about a series of sometimes wildly-different vehicles which've been bought, leased, modified, and more to suit the needs of the US presidency. The apt comparison would be to articles about other specific state cars, of which there are so few, and there certainly aren't any that begin to approach the level of information as this article, there really can't be any comparisons made. compare MOS:COMMONALITY with your MOS:VAR concerns The guide at Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Opportunities for commonality is strictly about varieties of English, not comparing articles of similar subjects. Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Retaining existing styles (MOS:VAR) is about articles retaining established grammar and formatting when multiple options are afforded (e.g. Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Spacing or Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Serial commas), not about articles with similar topics.

my disdain for throwing lists of MOS and WP shortcuts at people I don't mind; I've now endeavored to use whole links to policies, guidelines, and manuals when linking them. I don't think removing a few cases of sentence spacing violates PUNCTSPACE That MOS allows for double-spacing after full stops, and Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Retaining existing styles says, "Sometimes the MoS provides more than one acceptable style or gives no specific guidance. When either of two styles is acceptable it is generally considered inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change." [I don't think] linking LBJ in a white convertible to the sentence 'President Johnson preferred white convertibles' (which is also entirely unsourced, though feel free to include it in a better way) violates TRANCPARENCY. That linking would be expected to lead to information supporting or discussing Johnson's preferences, and pointing to an image file is not only unexpected for such prose, but implies that it itself is supporting evidence in contravention of Wikipedia:No original research. As for the preferences claim being unsourced, its currently cited to the LA Times which says, "The limousine was originally designed for Nixon’s predecessor, Lyndon B. Johnson, whose preferred mode of transportation was a Continental sedan. He liked white convertibles, but…" I don't know what you mean by WP:V and WP:NOR since I didn't add content to the article Those concerns were the aforementioned image-linking, excluding previous vehicles as "Beasts" without having verification they weren't so-called, and claiming that nicknaming continued through the Biden administration while citing a source that predates his presidency by about 1.5 years. I clarified one sentence talking about President Ford and Ford Motor Company by using 'they' instead of Ford to avoid ambiguity That sentence doesn't actually mention President Ford, but the disambiguation is a good call and I'll replace it (though by saying "the manufacturer" rather than "they" to similarly avoid implying it was the museum making the decision). — Fourthords | =Λ= | 17:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)