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Talk:Pretty Hurts/GA1

< Talk:Pretty Hurts
Latest comment: 9 years ago by Lips Are Movin in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 9 years ago24 comments4 people in discussion
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Reviewer: Lips Are Movin (talk · contribs) 21:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)Reply


A superb article, though the prose needs a lot of work before this can be awarded a GA icon.

Infobox

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Extended content

#It would be beneficial if the artwork had WP:ALT text.

  1. Regarding the genres from what the sources say, the song is pop, power pop and soul. And not neo soul, power pop is an obvious sub-genre of pop so pop in turn becomes redundant. I would suggest you use just Power pop and soul instead.
  2. As far as I know, the format of using only surnames after first mention applies to an album track listing, not a single infobox. So I would suggest you use Beyonce's surname in the producer section as well.

Everything else is great.

Lead

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#"Pretty Hurts" is a song recorded by American singer Beyoncé for her fifth studio album, Beyoncé (2013). -> I would suggest using "her eponymous fifth studio album" as her name appearing twice here sounds rather informal.

  1. It impacted mainstream radio in the United States on June 10, 2014 -> A comma after "2014" per MOS:COMMA.
  2. The song was written by Sia Furler, Ammo and Beyoncé, while the production was handled by the latter two. -> Replace "While the" with "and its". The word while should generally be avoided unless it is differentiating between a negative and a positive.
  3. It is OK to use a full name when listing songwriters for a track listing or info box but in the article's body use WP:COMMONNAME for Sia, not Sia Furler. All Furler's in the rest of the article should be replaced with Sia.
  4. "Pretty Hurts" was initially written for Katy Perry and then offered to Rihanna; as both of the artists did not record it, the song was eventually sent to Beyoncé who decided to include it on her fifth studio album that was still in development. -> Should read: "Pretty Hurts" was initially written for Katy Perry and then offered to Rihanna; both artists failed to record the track and as a result it was sent to Beyoncé instead.
  5. "Pretty Hurts" is a self-empowerment pop song discussing society beauty standards and analyzing female body image. Beyoncé decided to record it to show the negative effect of beauty pageants and expectations on how women should look. -> Here it says the song is only pop, please see my power pop and soul suggestion above. It would be beneficial if the track had a sentence here speaking of its sound alone, the audio snippet of the judge questioning Beyonce's aspirations should also be mentioned. The lyrical summary here is a bit patchy and informal, I would write: The track's lyrical content deals with subjects of third-wave feminism, self-empowerment and body image.
  6. Upon its release, it received critical acclaim from music critics who commended the lyrics and Beyoncé's vocal performance. -> The word "upon" is listed as a word to avoid. Critical and critics in the same sentence does not work. I have also copyedited the critical reception section, and the neutral term here should be "generally favorable reviews". This should read: "Pretty Hurts" garnered generally favorable from music critics who commended Beyoncé's vocal performance and the track's lyrical content.
  7. The sentences regarding the commercial performance use words like "several" and "prior to" which should be avoided. It would be beneficial to mention if the song became Beyonce's 500th of 50th number one on Hot Dance Club Songs. I would suggest the following -> Following the release of Beyoncé, the track charted in the lower regions internationally, and when released as a single, "Pretty Hurts" attained limited success commercially. It failed to enter the US Billboard Hot 100 and peaked at number 63 on the UK Singles Chart. However, the song became Beyoncé's 21st number one single on the US Hot Dance Club Songs chart.
  8. A music video filmed for "Pretty Hurts" was made available on iTunes with the release of the album on December 13, 2013 and was later released online on April 24, 2014. It was directed by Melina Matsoukas and it shows Beyoncé as a contestant competing in a beauty peagant trying to achieve physical perfection." This does not read well. I would suggest: -> The accompanying music video for "Pretty Hurts" was directed by Melina Matsoukas, and features Beyoncé competing in a beauty pageant. The clip was made available at iTunes Stores as part of the album's release on December 13, 2013.
  9. The story depicted in the video is meant to illustrate the lyrics of the song. -> this is not needed and reads as WP:POV
  10. It received positive reviews by critics who generally praised Beyoncé's acting, the cohesion between the video and its lyrical content as well as the meaningful message behind it." This does not read well and shows WP:POV. I would suggest: -> The video was well-received by critics; who complimented Beyoncé's acting and the cohesion between the clip and song's message.
  11. "Pretty Hurts" was performed live during Beyoncé's co-headlining tour with Jay-Z, On the Run Tour (2014)."-> The singer performed "Pretty Hurts" live during her co-headlining On the Run Tour (2014).
  12. The awards the song/video won at MTV Europe Music Awards should be mentioned in the lead.

Updated.- Lips are movin 13:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)Reply

Background and recording

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#The caption for Sia's image is very trivial. I suggest: -> Sia (pictured) co-wrote and provided background vocals for "Pretty Hurts". Also WP:ALT would be beneficial.

  1. "Pretty Hurts" was initially written by Australian singer Sia Furler in 2011.[1] Furler subsequently sent the song to Katy Perry on her e-mail but Perry did not see it. Afterwards, she sent the song to Rihanna's manager, who put it on hold for eight months but did not pay a fee to secure it. Furler then proceeded to send it to Beyoncé, who knew instantly that she wanted to record "Pretty Hurts".[1][2] -> Should read: Initially written in 2011 by Australian musician Sia, "Pretty Hurts" was first offered to American singer Katy Perry. However, Perry failed to read an e-mail Sia sent her regarding the song. As a result, Sia offered the track to Barbadian singer Rihanna instead, whose manager later failed to settle a fee for the song after eight months. "Pretty Hurts" was then sent to Beyoncé who "slid into home base and just closed the deal".[1][2]
  2. It would be beneficial to add where Sia wrote the song (her apartment) as well as that it was written on the same day she recorded "Titanium" - very interesting, as well as Perry's late response should be added.
  3. During an interview, Beyoncé said, "The second I heard the song, I'm like, 'I have to sing this song, I don't care how hard I have to fight for this song, this is my song!'".[3]-> During what interview? The exclamation mark should be outside the quote and should replace the full stop per WP:MOSLQ
  4. Ammo can be intoduced with "American musician".
  5. When replying to a fan lamenting that her song " Elastic Heart" would have been a fine single for Beyoncé, Furler commented that she gave the singer her "other best song".[5] -> This goes a bit off-topic and seems more relevant to the "Elastic Heart" article. I would suggest you just mention: "On October 1, 2013, Sia stated on Twitter that she considered "Pretty Hurts" to be one of the "best songs" she has developed.". I would also move this to the first paragraph.
  6. Please check that each sentence with a quote is sourced irrespective of WP:OVERCITE.
  7. It is important to state where/to whom/when Beyoncé made those statements in the third paragraph.
  8. There are two different radio add dates for the United Kingdom. Which is correct?
  9. Please check when using a date like "June 10, 2014" in a sentence that there is a comma after "2014" per MOS:COMMA.

Composition

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#This section should be titled Composition and lyrical analysis, as the section is mostly made up of lyrical analysis.

  1. "Pretty Hurts" is a pop, power pop and neo soul ballad[11][12][13][14] with undertones of mellow R&B music[15] and a hip hop groove.[16][17] -> This is WP:OVERKILL. All sources should be merged into one reference. Also the genres are power pop and soul as I suggested for the lead. Suggested wording: "Pretty Hurts" is a power pop, soul ballad, and contains "mellow" R&B undertones and a hip hop groove.
  2. Musically, it is complete with synths which give "crisp clarity" and "spare background" to the track[18][19] as well as minor chords and booming drums.[20] -> The citations should be moved to the end of the sentence, this does not read well either. Suggested wording: "Musically, the track's sparse background is honed with the use of synths, minor chords and a "booming" drum beat.
  3. It was composed using common time in the key of B major, with a slow tempo of 65 beats per minute.[21] Beyoncé's vocals span from the low note of F♯3 to the high note of D♯5.[21] -> WP:OVERCITE, it is worthwhile to mention the track's chord progression since its chords contribute to its sparse background and there is issue with grammatical tense here. Suggested wording: "Pretty Hurts" is set in the time signature of common time, with a tempo of beats per minute. It is composed in the key of with Beyoncé's vocals spanning the tonal nodes of F♯3 to D♯5. The song follows a basic sequence of B-F♯-G♯m-E as its chord progression.[21]
  4. Beyoncé's vocal performance in the song received comparison to her own powerhouse vocals in "Halo" (2008).[19][20][22][23] -> WP:OVERKILL and WP:POV. Use this instead: Beyoncé's vocal performance in "Pretty Hurts" was likened by a variety of music critics to that of her 2008 single, "Halo".[19]
  5. "Pretty Hurts" further received comparisons with TLC's "Unpretty" (1999) and Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" (2002) due to their similar themes and statements.[24][25] -> Unnecessary use of "further" here and reads as excessive wording. Use this instead: The song's lyrical content garnered comparisons to TLC's "Unpretty" (1999) and Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" (2002).
  6. Una Mullally of The Irish Times further noted that the song sounded like something Pink could sing.[25] -> WP:NOTE, excessive wording. Use this instead: Una Mullally of The Irish Times commented that the track's sound recalled the works of American singer Pink.
  7. Jody Rosen writing for Vulture said that the song sounded like a "robust, black" tune sang by Barbra Streisand.[20] -> Vulture should be New York Magazine and the grammar here does not work. "Black" is also unnecessary. Should read: Writing for New York Magazine, Jody Rosen felt that "Pretty Hurts" was reminiscent of a more "robust" Barbra Streisand song.
  8. Jed Gottlieb from Boston Herald found an influence by singer Lorde in the beat of "Pretty Hurts". -> Poor grammar. Should read: Jed Gottlieb of the Boston Herald likened the track's beat to the works of New Zealand singer Lorde.
  9. Chris Bosman from Consequence of Sound described "Pretty Hurts" as a blend of "cinematic reach of modern Top 40 pop with the patience and melancholy of post- 808s & Heartbreaks hip- hop."[17] Remove "blend of".
  10. The theme of "Pretty Hurts" is related to third-wave feminism;[28] it is intended as a self- empowerment anthem for women as Beyoncé sings negatively of beauty stereotypes and expectations on how women should look which are often "impossible" and created mostly by the society.[22][29][30] -> this drags, and is repetitive and reads as WP:POV. It is important to be neutral and opinions should not be stated as facts. A better version: The lyrics in "Pretty Hurts" are related to third-wave feminism and self-empowerment. It confronts society's standards and stereotypes with regard to female beauty.
  11. Thematically, the song was also noted for being darker, vulnerable and more personal to the singer in comparison with her other material. -> This is an opinion stated as a fact and is misinterpreting what is said in the source. The sentence should be moved to the previous paragraph and should read: USA Today writer Korina Lopez opined that the song showcased a "darker side" to the singer.
  12. The song opens with an audio snippet of a beauty pageant judge asking Beyoncé, "Miss 3rd Ward... What is your aspiration in life?" to which she replies "My aspiration in life would be... to be happy."[22] -> Messy punctuation and does not comply with WP:MOSLQ. Use the following instead: The song opens with a recorded snippet of a beauty pageant judge questioning Beyoncé on her life aspirations, to which she replies, "My aspiration in life would be... to be happy".
  13. The sample was used to frame the song in the context of the singer's childhood.[32] -> Tense. "Was used" should be "is used".
  14. According to Michael Cragg from The Guardian, the snippets were used in the song to question the singer's "drive and desire that's got her to where she is today, and whether the struggle was entirely worth it".[33] -> remove "in the song".
  15. The opening lyrics then follow, in which Beyoncé represents a pageant contestant about to be judged: "Mama said, 'You're a pretty girl, what's in your head, it doesn't matter. Brush your hair, fix your teeth. What you wear is all that matters".[34][35] -> The song then transcends into a depiction of Beyoncé as a beauty pageant contest awaiting judgment in the lyrics, "Mama said, 'You're a pretty girl, what's in your head, it doesn't matter. Brush your hair, fix your teeth. What you wear is all that matters".[34][35]
  16. The lyrics further indicate the self-doubt and nervousness of a girl who is under pressure of achieving physical perfection through a long "tedious, exhausting" process.[36][37] - this is not needed as it is a rehash of the previous sentence.
  17. Lyrically, the song is also complete "with speechy lyrics about the tyranny of the beauty industry",[11] with the singer analyzing female body image, questioning the need for women to beautify themselves aas well people's obsession with physical perfection.[12][27][38] This is evident in the second verse, in which Beyoncé lists the things that are considered beautiful in society, "Blonder hair, flat chest/ TV says bigger is better/ South Beach, sugar free/ Vogue says thinner is better."[35] - Each sentence seems to be rehashing the one before it in other words now. It would be beneficial for the reader if Vogue and South Beach are linked. This should read: The lyrical content in in the second verse of "Pretty Hurts"—"Blonder hair, flat chest/ TV says bigger is better/ South Beach, sugar free/ Vogue says thinner is better"—serve as an analysis of female body image and society's obsession with physical perfection.
  18. Beyoncé further describes the sickness behind perfection and the damaging effects to the body it usually has, something that occurs mostly with eating disorders.[15][35][39] This reads as WP:POV and is informal. Use this instead: Additionally, the track's lyrics deal with the consequences of society's high standards of beauty, and in "Pretty Hurts" eating disorders are depicted as one of the subjected results.
  19. The song sends a message about increasing a person's self-esteem and self-love[39][40] as well as respecting a person's character instead of the physical looks.[20] This is heard in the chorus lines: Pretty hurts We shine the light on whatever's worst Perfection is a disease of a nation[...] Tryna fix something But you can't fix what you can't see It’s the soul that needs surgery"[24][39][41] -> All of this should be removed as it is already made as obvious as possible in all the sentences before it.
  20. The singer denounces "plastic smiles" and during the last verses of the song demands from the listeners to "strip away the masquearede".[42][32] -> If there is a source, it would be worthwhile to mention that plastic surgery is a common theme throughout the lyrical content. See also "a soul that needs surgery"
  21. Several critics found messages advising listeners to believe in their dreams and reach their goals; a theme about desire for fame was also noticed in the song.[26][43] -> "Several" is vague and this sentences reads as trivia. I would suggest: Critics observed that "Pretty Hurts" promoted its listener's ambition for fame and personal growth.
  22. Marc Hogan of Spin magazine felt that the lyrics of the song made a type of a political statement against beauty industry and added that it resembled a speech accompanied by music.[44] McCall somehow agreed with Hogan's statements, noting that if the song had been sung by Phil Ochs in 1995, set to an acoustic guitar background, it would have been regarded as a protest song [34] He further opined that Beyoncé recorded the song as a response to the criticism she received for her "perfection" following the use of a prerecorded track of the American anthem during Barack Obama's second inauguration in 2013.[34] Spin should be linked, and the words "further" and "somehow" should be avoided. This drags as well. I would suggest: Marc Hogan of Spin opined that "Pretty Hurts" resembled a speech accompanied by music and felt that it served as a political statement addressed to the beauty industry.[44] Hogan's view was echoed by McCall of The Star-Ledger who wrote that had the song been performed by Phil Ochs in 1995, it "would have instantly recognized it as a protest number".[34] McCall went on to opine that "Pretty Hurts" served a response to the criticism Beyoncé received for her performance of the American national anthem during Barack Obama's second inauguration in 2013.[34]
  23. It would be beneficial for the sample to have a type=music at the bottom of its formatting. The sample's description should also be trimmed and not read as WP:POV, a rewrite is needed.

Updated.- Lips are movin 13:25, 29 December 2014 (UTC)Reply

Critical reception

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I have copyedited this section myself and it is now up to standard.- Lips are movin 13:26, 29 December 2014 (UTC)Reply

Commercial performance

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@My love is love: I have copyedited this section myself. Before I continue with the lengthy music video section and the rest of the article, I would suggest you address all my above concerns and then read through the rest of the article word-for-word, and edit accordingly.- Lips are movin 15:30, 29 December 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Lips Are Movin: I think that this review should have resulted with a fail in the first place since you have remarks for each sentence in the article. I addressed some of your comments about the lead but I decide to withdraw the nomination. I Am... ***D.D. 18:42, 7 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
@My love is love: This article has been up for GAN for so long, and it's really up to standard coverage-wise for GA. I'd hate for you to withdraw tbh! I'd be more than happy to do some copyediting if you're still interested! - Lips are movin 18:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
MLIL, Please don't give up. The article looks great! I agree, it can be frustrating when someone spends more time explaining changes that should be made rather than just making the changes on their own. However, that is up to the reviewer, and it looks like User:Lips Are Movin is willing to help. As am I if necessary. You are so close! :) ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:03, 7 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
Thank you guys for your motivational words. I will do the improvements over the next two days. I Am... ***D.D. 19:17, 7 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

Fab :) I can see you've put in a lot of effort in the article and it's visible in its good coverage. And I hate to sound nitpicky but as a reviewer, it is visible to me that the prose, neutrality and some referencing is the only issue it has, so I'll gladly help with a quick copyedit of the article when I have time to lessen the load of points I'm proposing.- Lips are movin 20:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

Lips, thank you for being willing to help out. In no way do I mean to dictate this process, but I do hope MLIL takes some time to review the changes made by Lips, just so there is agreement. Barnstars for both of you once the article is promoted to Good article status, because I appreciate how you two are working together and making Wikipedia a better project. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:53, 8 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

Final concerns

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Thanks @Another Believer: :) I've finished copyediting the article @My love is love:, please feel free to check and change what you agree and disagree with. The only other concerns I have are the following:

  1. I'm a bit confused and probably incorrectly copyedited the line in the music video's development section regarding Beyonce's youth footage and "Ghost".
  2. Most of the references don't contain publishers.
Publishers were deliberately omitted (as in Beyoncé (album)). I Am... ***D.D. 20:13, 24 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
  1. Some of the references are linked more than once.
I cannot find such references, can you please point them out? I Am... ***D.D. 20:15, 24 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
  1. The charts section doesn't contain Template:Singlechart which seems to be the WP:MoS for song articles and could result in WP:LINKROT in future.
Not using the template doesn't cause linkrot. See FA Rehab (Rihanna song). MaRAno FAN 11:56, 21 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
The template is there for a reason, and is WP:MOS for song articles, irregardless of whatever random dated FA. - Lips are movin 12:41, 21 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
  1. It would be beneficial if all images contained WP:ALT.
  2. A detailed fair-use rationale needs to be added for the single artwork and sample. The rationales on Beyonce (album) would prove useful in this case.

  On hold Once these concerns are addressed and MLIL is happy with the prose that I've copyedited this should be A and away for GA! :) - Lips are movin 18:41, 8 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

@Lips Are Movin: I don't mean to be rude. But this article has been on hold for more than 10 days. You need to pass or fail this immediately MaRAno FAN 09:44, 21 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
@MaranoFan: the article has been a GAN for more than 6 months, I felt it was only fair to give the nominator some time to respond as he/she has waited this long for it to be reviewed. It seems the reviewer has become unactive lately, unless @Another Believer: would like to address the concern, I will have to fail this unfortunately. - Lips are movin 11:29, 21 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
MaranoFan, why the demand? Personally, I would prefer Lips Are Movin to decide when it is best to pass or fail the nomination. If you look at the nominator's edit history, you will see breaks between editing sessions. I don't see anything wrong with that and would prefer to give the nominator more time to address these final concerns, but at the same time I recognize that the decision is not mine to make. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
@Another Believer: An article is generally placed on hold for 7 days. The time may be extended if work to address the concerns is going on. Honestly speaking, I don't think that any such work is being done. It would be good to close this before a bot archives this as an abandoned review. MaRAno FAN 08:01, 22 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

@Lips Are Movin: I think I've addressed everything besides the last note. Can you please specify how I should do that (I can see that both the cover art and the sample have fair-rationales)? I Am... ***D.D. 20:38, 24 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

@My love is love: The rationales seem to have been fixed by another user. A few last minor issues to resolve:

Everything   Done. Thank you very much for your wonderful review, immense help and patience. I Am... ***D.D. 12:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

My pleasure, passing, congrats and keep up the great work! - Lips are movin 12:49, 25 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
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