Talk:Primary Colours (Eddy Current Suppression Ring album)/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Shaidar cuebiyar (talk · contribs) 08:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Starting the review

I see that this article was not promoted less than a month ago. Looking at the changes made since then I see a lot of improvement, well done. I will be going through each of the criteria in order. I reserve the right to return to earlier comments/sections and revise/add to them until the review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week. I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

General comments As an Australian band, dates should be in dmy format not mdy and spelling/grammar in Australian English not American English. First check the GA tools to the right, when there are no problems, then add the following templates above the infobox: {{Use dmy dates|date=August 2014}} {{Use Australian English|date=August 2014}} Next check through the article and modify as required to adhere to these templates.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

I see that you have started editing the article using comments from the section below. I have no problem with that but make sure you don't ignore the date & spelling/grammar fixes required throughout the article. Also add the 'plates indicated above.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:40, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

A good article is—

Criterion 1

1. Well-written:
1. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
2. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Infobox

1. Fix dmy
   1. Once again, check the entire article: make sure all dates are in this format.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
2. Inhabit Duration 'plate
3. Delete Records after Aarght!
4. Inhabit Producer. Match it with content at Background and recording, and at Personnel.
5. Add any single(s) & release date(s).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
   1. Release date of single?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Lead

1. deLink Australian and Melbourne. They're common terms.
2. Check over-use of "release". Use alternate terms.
3. If 5 May 2008 was US date, when was Aus date? If earlier, infobox needs fixing. If same date as US, adjust sentence to clarify.
4. Does UK date have month, or more?
5. More precision for single appearance?
6. Change #6 > No. 6 Note: hard space between No. and 6. Provide similar for other instances.
7. Change ARIA charts > [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Albums Chart]]
8. At "was nominated for" specify the category. If this is their first nomination by that awards organisation then it should be mentioned.
9. Change for the ARIA award that same year > for the [[ARIA Music Awards of 2008|ARIA Award that same year]]
10. Check content of rest of article: are all sections adequately summarised in the Lead?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:01, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Background and recording

1. wikiLink first appearance of band name in main text.
2. deLink Melbourne.
3. multitrack recording > multi-track recording Aus format with piped link.
4. at a cost of $1500. The process of recording the album took 24 hours and cost $1500. Reduce redundancy.
5. Is Wooden their engineer or their producer or both?
6. At first appearance of each band member give their pseudonym. E.g. after which Mikey Young, the band's guitarist > after which Mikey Young (aka Eddy Current), the band's guitarist or after which Eddy Current (aka Mikey Young), the band's guitarist Whichever you chose be consistent with other member's pseudonyms.
7. Reduce use of "the band" and "the album", both in this section and elsewhere.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:03, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
   1. My intention was to have you provide greater variety for a general reader, there were too many appearances of "the band" or "the album". Now there are too many "Eddy Current Suppression Ring" or "Primary Colours", especially in 'Background and recording' section.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Release

1. A single ¶ is not enough for a section/subSection. Combine with previous section.
2. Check over-use of "release". Use alternate terms.
3. Add in Australian distributor.
4. Add September to US info in Lead.
5. "Later in 2008" Do you have a month for the single?
6. Add August to UK info in Lead.shaidar cuebiyar (talk)

I think Wooden is just their engineer, but since you said you wanted me to match the producer with what it said in the "background" section I felt obliged to include someone who had been mentioned there. Now I'm starting to think it was produced by the band, and so I will change it to that. [1] As for the single, I don't think I have any more information about it though I have done a lot of looking. Really all I know is that it was released in 2008. I think I have addressed most of the other concerns, though. Jinkinson talk to me 14:21, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Check for producer at other RS: I've seen a band member (Eddy) named and Wooden. For first single, Lead has "Its initial issue was followed by the release of". This implies mid-2008: don't change the Lead just modify infobox unless you find a more precise value.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:55, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Music and lyrics

1. I like to start each new section with the article title, as soon as convenient. In this case I'd start with "The lyrics on Primary Colours" or similar.
2. According to Track listing section all music and lyrics were written by Brendan Huntley (aka Brendan Suppression). This should be in this section too, however this needs to be verified by a RS e.g. APRA or ASCAP or equivalent. I haven't done a track-by-track analysis but a preliminary look shows that all four band members are credited for songwriting duties, for at least some tracks.
3. Trim According to an article in The Washington Post by Chris Richards > According to The Washington Post's Chris Richards Brevity.
4. Trim Richards also wrote that Eddy Current Suppression Ring's lead singer, Brendan Suppression, > Richards also wrote that Suppression, Concision & reduce redundancy (we already know the band's name, we already know their lead singer's name and role, "Suppression" is sufficient here unless you want to use "Huntley" (if you do, be consistent throughout the article with use of 'real names' vs pseudonyms: except in direct quotes where you use the author's preference).
5. Trim who wrote that on the album, > who wrote,
6. Adjust quoting style. Australian English typically does not have final full stops or commas before the talking marks.
7. Don't need the i.e. and associated commentary: we already know the name of the album's predecessor.
8. With "Mikey Young": remember consistency, align real vs pseudo, throughout.
9. Give David Bevan's association, e.g. David Bevan of Pitchfork Media or similar.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:55, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
10. already refined them." > already refined them".
    1. Check the end of all cited material, look for final full stop or comma.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
11. Consider Eddy Current described the album > Current described the album Likewise for other similar mentions after first time pseudonym and real name are given for any individual band member. To this point in the article Danny Current (real name Danny Young) has not been mentioned as so there is no confusion over which Current is being mentioned. As far as I see Danny is only mentioned at Track listing and Personnel.
12. centered Aus spell.
13. Brendan Suppression > Suppression per previous mention.

Reception

1. See previous about start of section.
2. overwhelmingly positive critical reception > generally positive critical reception According to the ratings table four of seven are at 7/10 or 8/10: hence "overwhelmingly" is not supported. If almost all were 9/10 or higher you'd have a better case.
3. Eddy Current (real name Mikey Young), > Current, per previous mention.
4. Critics who gave the album favorable reviews include is largely redundant if it received generally positive critical reception in the previous sentence.
5. DeLink Pitchfork Media here, it should be Linked 1st time used in main text (up there in Music and lyrics). Note also that "ribbons of guitar melody" has already been quoted in previous section so one or the other has to go/be re-written.
6. gave the album an A- rating > gave the album a rating of A− Note change hyphen to actual minus symbol, word order changed as otherwise this could be mis-construed as "an A-rating" i.e. just A, no minus.
7. Trim In his review, Christgau wrote that on Primary Colours, Eddy Current Suppression Ring do > He also wrote that they do Remove superfluous/redundancy.
8. Link [[Allmusic]] at 1st appearance.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:17, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Accolades

1. Combine with adjacent subSection: neither is big.
2. For such each award the award-giving body should be reffed. For Australian Music Prize, leave the other ref but add one from either the Amp website or from Phonographic Performance Company of Australia (PPCA).
3. That same year, it was also nominated for an ARIA Award > At the ARIA Music Awards of 2008, it was nominated Greater precision both in sentence and in wikiLink.
4. Combine 2nd ¶ with 1st: both are short enough.
5. Per previous comment change # > No.  Note: hard space to be used.
6. Format the Washington Post's
7. top 10 > top 10 i.e. a hard space in there.

Commercial performance

1. Combine with previous subSection.
2. No. 6 per previous.
3. on the ARIA charts > on the [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Albums Chart]]. Note: The Age is not RS for charting information, you need an ARIA Report &/or Australian Charts Portal ref.
4. The Australian is not RS for album sales. You need ARIA, Billboard or other industry authority. Also, in Aus, albums are officially given as shipments not sales. By the way, is this the same ref as [2], which was used for 1st two sentences in Background and recording? If so combine them, it can be used for further information on Amp win.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

As per the above comments, I have, among other things, removed the information about copies sold and charts because I couldn't find a source meeting the above criteria to validate these figures. The best I could do with regard to charts was this, which I opted not to use because I don't know what each of the abbreviations at the top of the charts stand for. Jinkinson talk to me 03:10, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Good researching, so far, Jinkinson. This is curious, I would have thought that if it was widely reported as peaking at No. 6 it would appear on the standard ARIA Top 100 Albums Chart (on pages 5–6). The charts you found were prepared for the week ending 26th May 2008. The component chart on page 21 is ARIA Heatseekers (next 20 after Top 100), and the album appears at No. 14 This Week (TW), Last Week (LW) it was at No. 18, Times In (TI) shows how many times its appeared on this chart, with its Highest Peak (HP) at No. 14. By 23rd June 2008 (issue No. 956) its at No. 20 on the Heatseekers, and has HP at No.. 13. I haven't checked further. Nevertheless this is nowhere near the previously claimed No. 6. This charting has also challenged my belief that ARIA nominated material had to appear in the top 100. In any case, you can use the Heatseekers position in the Accolades and commercial performance subSection but this is not notable enough for the Lead, while the ARIA nom is.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:50, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Track listing

1. Give real names too. So that interested editors match names given at APRA with pseudonyms.
2. Consider changing url to this, I find this version easier to use. After you've searched per Performer, check the "Show all performers for all works" box as this will tell you whether any of the tracks were covered by other artists.

Personnel

1. Change each entry line per this sample *Brendan Suppression (real name Brendan Huntley)--vocals > * Brendan Suppression (real name Brendan Huntley) – vocals Note: one hard space in there, two hyphens replaced by an en dash.
2. bass > bass guitar
3. Danny's relationship to Eddy is not required here, if needed put it in Background and recording.
4. Where are the mixer(s), producer(s), studio(s)?
5. Any details on art works?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Criterion 2

2. Verifiable with no original research:
1. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
2. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); and
3. it contains no original research.

References

I will be checking all the references and each numbered comment below is related to its number as it existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as they get moved, added or deleted.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:16, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

1. Fix url to point to Overview, where the Review by Hoffman sits: its the majority use of this ref. wL first appearance of AllMusic in refs.
   1. Genre as Punk rock? Source has Pop/Rock with styles as Alternative/Indie Rock, Garage Punk, Indie Rock. So Punk rock is acceptable but I'd include: pop rock as well.
   2. Quote verified.
   3. Ditto.
   4. Use "goofy turn", as this is a direct quote.
   5. Rating verified.
   6. Quote verified.
   7. Used Credits tab, mastering is OK. Note: Eddy is more than just guitar. Add them in.
2. Add agency=[[Australian Associated Press]] (AAP) |publisher=[[News Corp Australia|News Ltd]] Content verified.
3. Format album title. wL website. Timed out. Tried again, got through. Just to be safe I'd add in archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20140714225444/http://drownedinsound.com/releases/14585/reviews/4137614 |archivedate=14 July 2014. Content verified at all points.
4. Add in publisher.
   1. Recorded over a "whole day" but date is not specified. Date for recording at AllMusic?
   2. 24 hours but not cost.
   3. Quote verified. But fix punctuation at end per previous comments.
   4. Instrument and pseudonym verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
5. Non-neutral source, one of the group's labels, so take extra care in its usage. Format album title. wL publisher.
   1. Gives studio name (add to recording engineer in Personnel, add to info box). Other information is supported.
   2. Content supported. Probably don't need parenthetical explanation of what overdubbing is.
   3. Content supported. However reword "over the first half of the summer of 2008". Our Northern Hemisphere readers (the vast majority of WP) may believe this to refer to June/July 2008, whereas Australians would read "first half of summer" as Dec 2007 to Jan '08. That latter makes more sense for an album issued in May 2008.23:07, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
   4. Direct quote verified. However introduce sentence with "Current described the album" as only Eddy has been mentioned thus far and no confusion exists if Danny is not mentioned until Track listing section.
   5. From Eddy's description, Wooden appears to be involved in production: if Eddy's use of "with the the help of our pal, Lachlan Wooden" is equated with "We even went in and did some ‘overdubs'" and "after some friendly discussion, we decided these were the best ten". Also note Suppression is credited with synthesiser on at least one track.
6. Use url= http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/music/gig-reviews/st-jeromes-laneway-festival/2010/01/28/1264268047785.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1 |work=[[The Sydney Morning Herald]] |publisher=[[Fairfax Media]] Cost of album verified. Although it claims album took days to record.
7. work=[[Triple J Award]] > work=J Awards 2008|publisher=[[Triple J]] ([[Australian Broadcasting Corporation]] (ABC)) Content supported, information should also be included in Personnel section.
8. author? publisher? Note that any direct quote (i.e. the sentence before) must have a citation applied to it, even if the citation applies to the next sentence as well. Content and direct quote are both supported.
9. Fix publisher per previous. Content verified. However use dmy for all dates in this article on an Australian artist. Are those 'plates in yet?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:49, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
10. Use expanded url (for single page version); add publisher per example at [7]. Content verified.
11. Use 'Which Way to Go' when placing song/single title inside quote marks. wL work. Add publisher & wL. Content and quote verified.
12. Publisher. At 2nd use: You've adapted Richards quote about Stooges and Fall but your quote marks don't match his words. A ref should be cited for every direct quote: not just after the last one. Otherwise quotes are verified.
13. wL 1st appearance of work/publisher in refs list. Check Pitchfork rating: 8.1 is for their debut album not Primary Colours. Trim David Bevan, in a review written for Pitchfork Media, and while David Bevan praised it He's been introduced earlier, just use his last name & drop affiliation from 2nd/subsequent mentions. Avoid repeat of a quote in main text: "ribbons of guitar melody" appears twice.
14. Format album title. wL work. add Publisher. Quote & content verified.
15. Add author (as far as I can see, only known as: B, so use this as a last name unless you can find more details). Format album title. My browser gave an "Untrusted Connection" message with an "Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain". I suggest using an archiveurl e.g. this to avoid potential link rot or other problems.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:07, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
16. Adj title: add full version & format alb. add publisher. Use "single-note piano riff" as its a direct quote. Content verified.
17. Author&wL, add work. Content & quote verified.
18. Format alb in title. wL work. add Publisher. The rating applies to the 2× CD version not just subject of article.
19. Publisher. Content & quote verified.
20. Fix work=[[ABC News (Australia)|ABC News]] |publisher=[[Australian Broadcasting Corporation]] (ABC) Content verified.
21. Fix title. give publisher&wL i.e. publisher=[[Australian Recording Industry Association]] (ARIA); which is not work. Content verified.
22. Google Books has a url here. Give book's isbn, & location. Quote verified.
23. publisher. Content verified.
24. publisher. Content verified.
25. publisher. Content verified.
26. Fix title=Search for 'Eddy Current Suppression Ring' |publisher=[[Australasian Performing Right Association]] (APRA) |accessdate=6 August 2014 }} Note: User may have to click 'Search again' and provide details at 'Enter a title:' e.g Memory Lane; or at 'Performer:' Eddy Current Suppression Ring</ref> Last names verified for song writers.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Additional ref since date above. New Ref [26]: ''Primary Colours'' had peaked at No. 13 on the [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Hitseekers Chart]] by June 2008.<ref>{{cite web | archiveurl=http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/23790/20080620-0000/issue956.pdf |url=http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts.htm |title=ARIA Charts: ARIA Hitseekers – Album |publisher=Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) |format=[[PDF]] |archivedate=20 June 2008 |date=23 June 2008 |accessdate=9 August 2014 | page=21}}</ref>shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:14, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Criterion 3

3. Broad in its coverage:
1. it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and
2. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
1. Is the given infobox album cover the only version? see here Should be mentioned in 'Background and recording'.
2. Otherwise, this criterion is acceptable.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:21, 9 August 2014 (UTC)shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:31, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Criterion 4

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
1. Given that all four members are song writers and all contributed to its recording & production, shouldn't all four be given some description in 'Background and recording'?
2. Do any reviewers give an indication as to why they don't rate the album at 10/10 (or equivalent)? For sake of NPoV at least one such non-positive comment should be provided in the Reception section.
3. Australian Music Prize win: this is a significant event for the album and the group. In 'Accolades and commercial performance' it deserves more than a single sentence. Who did they win against? Some explanation of how the money was expected to be used to further their career should be added.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:21, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Criterion 5

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
1. This criterion is acceptable.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:21, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Criterion 6

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
1. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
2. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
1. Source url for image does not match version in infobox.
2. Copyright ownership may reside with their label or the album's graphic artist.
3. Caption should either indicate that other versions exist or that this is the red one.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:53, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Finishing off

The article is steadily improving, I will now allow a further week – if required – for the nominator to address the issues indicated. All the best.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:48, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

It is now over a week since I finished by review. I would like to congratulate User:Jinkinson on successfully addressing all of the criteria to a suitable standard – well done! I commend the nominator on their diligence and invite them to participate in the GAN process again – either as a proposer or as a reviewer.–shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:43, 16 August 2014 (UTC)