Talk:Problem of evil in Hinduism

Problem of evil in Smartism

Unless Sankara is used also in Saivism and Vaishnavida, this article "solves" the problem of evil in Smartism only. ... said: Rursus (^mbork³) 20:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Removal of scholarly sourced content

@Kartik.jayan: Please do not repeatedly remove scholarly sources and their summary, and insert content based on email-lists, blogs or non-WP:RS. Further, please keep WP:Primary in mind, and if you do add a book that interprets a primary text, please identify the page number. What are your concerns with the WP:RS you keep deleting? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:51, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

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The page numbers in the reference book "Brahma Sutra Bhasya Of Shankaracharya" by Swami Gambhirananda are: 362-365.

Here are (some of) the problems with the previous version:

1) The quote provided by the previous version, "For that would lead to the possibility of partiality and cruelty..." is actually part of what is known as "Purva Paksha" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purva_paksha ), which is the OPPONENT'S view that is going to be REFUTED! To state this as the conclusion is simply ABSURD!

2) The statement in the previous version, "verses 2.1.34 through 2.1.36 aphoristically mention a version of the problem of suffering and evil in the context of the abstract metaphysical Hindu concept of Brahman" - is simply WRONG, as the reference verses from 2.1.34 to 2.1.36 do not even contain the word "Brahman" (or "Brahma")! This has been inserted by someone with no knowledge of the text!

3) Another statement in the previous version, "In other words, in the Brahma Sutras, the formulation of problem of evil is considered a metaphysical construct, but not a moral issue." is again WRONG! The commentary of Sankara on 2.1.34 contains the following statement:

dharma-adharma-avapekShata iti vadaamaH .

"We say that these are Dharma (Morality) and Adharma (Immorality)."

The word "Dharma" is the best translation that exists for Morality, so the claim that this is not a moral issue is borderline stupid! If that were the case, why call it "Problem of EVIL" at all?? The commentator Sankara clearly sees it as involving Dharma (Morality) and Adharma (Immorality)!

4) FYI: The Brahma Sutra 2.1.34 also contains the statement:

saapekSho hiishvaro viShamaaM sRRiShTiM nirmimiite .

"...for God ("Ishvara") makes this unequal creation by taking the help of other factors."

The word "God" can be either "Brahman" or "Ishvara" in Hinduism, the former being Impersonal and the latter Personal. Sankara evidently takes "Ishvara" to be the causal force involving the Problem of Injustice!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishvara — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kartik.jayan (talk • contribs) 02:53, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kartik.jayan: You did not quote sources, but provided your own analysis and interpretation of a WP:Primary text. Therefore, this is all OR, your personal opinion / prejudice / wisdom which we cannot use or rely upon. Because wikipedia is not your or my personal blog. You have linked to wikipedia articles, but we cannot use wikipedia as source. We must rely on scholarly, peer reviewed secondary or tertiary sources for interpretation, but unfortunately that is what you are removing. I am fluent with Sanskrit, Brahmasutra is aphoristic, and your assertions are strange (yes, I know about Purva Paksha). A sutra needs to be filled in with commentary to make sense out of it, which in turn needs a secondary/tertiary review for it to be a good WP:RS for wikipedia. The sources cited in this article are such WP:RS.

You are wrong about (2) above, just read the page 363 of the cited source in the article after that sentence in this article, and you will see "Brahman" word all over. Our goal here is to summarize such verifiable sources. You have also not provided a evidence of peer review or rationale as to why Gambhirananda's book qualifies as WP:RS. Wikipedia is not Gambhirananda-pedia. Please see WP:RS, identify any that verifiably support what you write, and we can integrate that in into this article. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:26, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

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The book that I quoted was Swami Gambhirananda's. There is no Original Research being done by me here! I'm simply quoting a 50-year old English translation of a famous work in Hinduism!

Let me be even clearer here.

1) The previous version contains the QUOTE: "For that would lead to the possibility of partiality and cruelty. For it can be reasonably concluded that God has passion and hatred like some ignoble persons... Hence there will be a nullification of God's nature of extreme purity, (unchangeability), etc., [...] And owing to infliction of misery and destruction on all creatures, God will be open to the charge of pitilessness and extreme cruelty, abhorred even by a villain. Thus on account of the possibility of partiality and cruelty, God is not an agent. — Adi Shankara, Translated by Arvind Sharma"

Guess what Swami Gambhirananda starts the quote with? "OPPONENT SAYS:" - so the above quote that is claimed to Adi Sankara's is actually the OPPONENT'S view that Sankara REFUTES!

2) I stand by my statement that neither Swami Gambhirananda's translation NOR the Sanskrit original of Sankara's commentary on the Brahma Sutras on 2.1.34 to 2.1.36 contains the word "Brahman". The Sanskrit word that Sankara uses in this context is "Ishvara", which Swami Gambhirananda translates as "GOD"! Please consult the Brahma Sutra Supersite at the following link:

https://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/bs_home

3) The word "Dharma" (as also "Adharma") repeatedly in Sankara's commentary on the Brahma Sutras 2.1.34! It makes absolutely NO sense to claim that, "In other words, in the Brahma Sutras, the formulation of problem of evil is considered a metaphysical construct, but not a moral issue." Because the word "Dharma" in Hinduism DOES indicate a MORAL issue!

4) The only change I make here is that SANKARA'S COMMENTARY on the Brahma Sutra 2.1.34 also contains the statement:

saapekSho hiishvaro viShamaaM sRRiShTiM nirmimiite .

"...for God ("Ishvara") makes this unequal creation by taking the help of other factors."

Again, please consult the Brahma Sutra Supersite: https://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/bs_home

The word "God" can be either "Brahman" or "Ishvara" in Hinduism, the former being Impersonal and the latter Personal. Sankara evidently takes "Ishvara" to be the causal force involving the Problem of Injustice!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishvara — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kartik.jayan (talk • contribs) 03:59, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

"बुराई" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect बुराई. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:20, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Needs Major Cleanup

The article uses many words to say very little—oft repeating itself. If this were a paper I would grade it around a D+.2604:2D80:DE11:1300:21DD:9EE:10A8:6CAC (talk) 01:03, 5 November 2021 (UTC)