Talk:Project Wingman: Frontline 59

Categorization

Instead of flinging accusations of trolling, try explaining how I'm wrong. Far as I see it, my edits to this page are in line with the categorization consensus on the equivalent Switch and PS4 pages. I think this game has enough unique content from Project Wingman to be considered a PS5 exclusive.Jursha (talk) 01:35, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jursha: The categories are being removed because this page is a redirect rather than an article. Redirects should not be categorized per WP:RCAT. Are you seeing other redirects with categories? TornadoLGS (talk) 02:05, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Anything italicized on this page: Category:Nintendo Switch-only games

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Collar X Malice, etc. are all redirects. Jursha (talk) 02:12, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Looking more closely at WP:RCAT it seems categories that apply to the redirect but not the target are appropriate so, at most, the PlayStation VR2 games and PlayStation 5-only games categories would apply, but not the others. That being said, it seems that @Big Goose23 and Padgriffin: disagree on this being an exclusive. I can't comment on that since I've been out of the gaming loop for a while, but that may still have to be resolved. Please hash that bit out here rather than by continuing to revert. Further edit warring and I will take this to WP:RFPP. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:25, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, thank you for clarifying. Jursha (talk) 02:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

PS5-only Category

The Switch, Wii U and 3DS exclusive categories all allow for ports/remakes with significant new/unique content. This game qualifies as much as Battle Calculator or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe does for being a Switch exclusive, as consensus would show. The criteria for this being a PS5-only game should thus be no different, and I don't see any rule on Wikipedia disallowing ports with new/unique content from this category (or from other equivalent categories). Jursha (talk) 17:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, SIGNIFICANT new content. None of these ports have significant new content, only small or dlc sized amounts. Big Goose23 (talk) 20:15, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Hey, there is one I can comment on. What about ones like Metroid Prime Remastered? Overhauled graphics and bug fixes but not much beyond that. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, so now you agree that ports with significant new content are eligible to categorize as an exclusive, which is good. How do you quantify significance in relation to game content? Frontline 59 takes about 4 hours on a first-time playthrough, whereas the regular campaign takes about 11. I'd say an additional 4 hours of content on top of that is rather significant. So what is Frontline 59 missing that, say, Twilight Princess HD apparently has in spades? Jursha (talk) 21:43, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Generally the page should be as it was before the dispute began until it is resolved. That said, I will take this to WP:AN3 if there is more reverting on any of the involved redirects. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Does @Big Goose23 know that? Because he just reverted this page, as well as Nep ReVerse's and R-Type Final 3's again. To be clear, the Project Wingman: Frontline 59 redirect originally had the PS5-only games category attached to it, because I'm the one that got the redirect created and approved in the first place. Jursha (talk) 22:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

None of those three should have the category. Neptunia and Final 3 did not have the category when the dispute started, so I fixed them as per what TornadoLGS said. Frontline 59 didn't either as it's only a redirect and it shouldn't as it's not a new game. Big Goose23 (talk) 23:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Frontline 59 did have the "PS5-only games" category before the dispute, because I'm the one that had that redirect approved, and added that category myself. Jursha (talk) 23:13, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

You say you added it, thus starting the dispute. You admitted with your own words that you started the dispute, so I will not reply further. Big Goose23 (talk) 23:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

I never said I started a dispute. What I did say was that I had the redirect approved myself, then added the categories. There was no dispute at that time. Jursha (talk) 23:20, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Frontline 59 only adds 2-3 hours of content as per the PlayStation store page. That is not significant, that is only dlc sized. It's a port with only a small amount of now content, not a new game. Also, if you have a problem with Twilight princess, take it over to that page. It's not relevant. Big Goose23 (talk) 22:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

2-3 hours is significant for an 11 hour game. It took me 4 to beat, myself (and looking at youtube playthroughs, I'm not alone in that). Again, what is your criteria for judging this exactly? Is there some rule somewhere regarding how much new content a port can have before it's considered an exclusive? Because the PS5-only Games Talk page sure doesn't have a consensus on this. You refuse to elaborate on your personal criteria on what is and isn't allowed.

And yes, TP HD is relevant as is every other game on the Switch, 3DS and Wii U lists that is only present due to a redirect, because it shows a consensus for ports w/ new content being considered as exclusive to the hardware they were released on. Jursha (talk) 22:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

I have elaborated, you refuse to read. Also, project wingman is not an 11 hour game. With the unlockable difficulty, conquest mode and many planes, it is at least a 30 if not 40 hour game. Again, Twilight princess is not relevant. Take any complaints about it to their talk page. I will not respond to anything regarding twillight princess again. Big Goose23 (talk) 22:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Then maybe you could respond to @TornadoLGS's point about Metroid Prime Remastered, since it's essentially the same point as mine. Also, I said that PW is an 11-hour game contextually regarding one's first playthrough. As in, the average amount of time one would take to play all the single-player missions the first time through (excluding Frontline 59). And no, you haven't elaborated at all, especially not on this Talk page. This is a discussion about criteria for how we determine whether ports w/ new content are allowed, since Frontline 59 is just that. TP HD and Metroid Prime Remastered are thus relevant. Jursha (talk) 23:11, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

It's not 11 hours though, and I've already explained why. You're arguing whataboutisms and and arguing in bad faith. I'm not going to reply further. Big Goose23 (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

It is 11 hours on a first playthrough, as howlongtobeat.com also says. Stop trying to remove context from my words and actually try to back your arguments up. Jursha (talk) 23:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Request for comment

Refer to the discussions above. Should Project Wingman: Frontline 59 belong to the category of PS5-only games? Jursha (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

The RfC template was improperly formatted, so I fixed it. TornadoLGS (talk) 01:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I'm still rather unfamiliar with certain functions of Wikipedia. Jursha (talk) 01:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the problem here. It doesn't look like you can buy frontline 59 on steam or other consoles so why the controversy? 47.39.26.30 (talk) 14:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)