Talk:Proposed South Shore Line station in South Bend

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BorgQueen (talk) 05:45, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that there are many proposals to build a new station in South Bend, Indiana for the South Shore Line? Source: Many in the article
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Craig Greenberg

Improved to Good Article status by SecretName101 (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 15:26, 16 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Proposed new South Shore Line station in South Bend; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• The hook doesn't sound all that interesting to me. Perhaps you should mention how long the proposals have been going on for. The article mentions that there were plans to relocate the station since 2006, an environmental study in 2008, and a financial estimate in 2013. Perhaps:

ALT1: ... that the construction of a new station has been proposed in South Bend, Indiana for the South Shore Line since 2006? https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/next-stop-downtown-buttigieg-wants-south-shore-to-run-into/article_c56e5214-9907-5273-a286-7306e2b6ce0e.html

• @Onegreatjoke: @SecretName101: Sorry, forgot to ping. PizzaKing13 ^¡Hablame! 00:46, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@PizzaKing13: We can do ALT2: "... that there have been many proposals for a new station at South Bend, Indiana for the South Shore Line since 2006? Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:06, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

ALT2 looks good to me. New enough GA, long enough, hook is interesting, neutral, sourced, no copyright vios. PizzaKing13 ^¡Hablame! 20:46, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: PizzaKing13 ^¡Hablame! 06:02, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: Quite frankly this article seems WP:TOOSOON for publication on the main page, even if it would survive AfD. Maybe we could revisit as a "new" article for DYK when the station is [closer to being] finally built? Cielquiparle (talk) 09:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree, Cielquiparle. If it's a notable topic (i.e. has an article that would, if challenged, survive AfD; and if you think that it wouldn't survive AfD, then please nominate it) and has an interesting hook (which, in my view, it has in ALT2), then there's nothing stopping this from going to the Main Page as a DYK. And under what criterion would it possibly become eligible at some point in the future, given that it won't then be new, newly expanded, or recently approved for GA? AGF tick based on the review above. Schwede66 18:59, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

@Schwede66: I defer to your judgment, but what I meant is that it would make a better DYK submission as a new article if/when the South Bend Station is built. IMO, the article as it stands now could be interpreted as promoting a political cause. There are a lot of public infrastructure projects that have been proposed and debated over the years; is it really the role of Wikipedia and DYK to promote the completion of one, and to cover each and every single local political debate and dispute over public transit? Cielquiparle (talk) 19:15, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

If transport planning controversies go on for long enough and become notable, and if an editor makes the effort to write a decent article about the affairs, then that's all that's needed as a prerequisite for a DYK. Schwede66 19:24, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

• @Onegreatjoke: It seems the nomination is "valid", in which case the onus is on you or SecretName101 to propose a better hook, as the current hooks are not interesting to a broad audience per DYK Rule #3a: likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest. My suggestion would be to mention Pete Buttigieg – as a broader audience has heard of him as DoT secretary and former presidential candidate. Cielquiparle (talk) 20:57, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

• Maybe something like, "for the several years, Northern Indiana officials have been debating where to locate a proposed new South Shore Line station in South Bend". SecretName101 (talk) 21:24, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Or maybe: an early foray into transit policy for Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg was exploring where to locate the proposed new South Shore Line station in South Bend during his mayoralty. SecretName101 (talk) 21:26, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

@Cielquiparle: Does that latter one seem good? SecretName101 (talk) 21:28, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

@SecretName101: Too wordy for a hook so here's one shorter version:

• ALT4a: ... that before becoming United States transportation secretary, "Mayor Pete" advocated a proposed new South Shore Line station in South Bend?

Pinging PizzaKing13 for possible review of ALT hooks or further input. Cielquiparle (talk) 23:32, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Just a comment. ALT4a is a fine hook indeed and certainly better than ALT2. Schwede66 01:55, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

ALT4a looks good to me PizzaKing13 ^¡Hablame! 03:04, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Restoring the tick just to save everyone some back and forth, given that PizzaKing13 has approved ALT4a. Cielquiparle (talk) 08:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

• Ineligible for now. BorgQueen (talk) 03:39, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
• If a GA review isn't begun by the end of the month, though, we should close. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
• No progress in the article on either the article end or the GAN end. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:31, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Proposed South Shore Line station in South Bend/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 23:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   Consider making the lead section longer to be more proportionate to the contents.

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   Is ref [13] reliable?

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

   Earwig has a higher-than-ideal percent to the South Bend Tribune, but it's for proper nouns ("Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District"), an attributed quote, and "east side of the airport" and similar banal phrases.

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   All three photos PD or CC-licensed or derived from same. Encouragement: Add alt text to each image.

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Consider the ref [13] issue—a railfan site doesn't strike me as an RS—and some copy changes. Otherwise good. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:11, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Copy changes

• In late 2022, the Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (NICTD) (the operator of the South Shore Line) Double parentheses. Set off the latter one in commas as an appositive.
• MOS:SEASONS: Consider not using "fall of", "autumn of" as potentially ambiguous to non-Northern Hemisphere readers.
• The station's location on the east side of the airport was chosen due to the to the existence of a freight spur leading towards location "Towards location", maybe "toward the site"?
• Since 2006, plans had been made to explore relocating the station to the west end of the airport in order to potentially cut travel time along the South Shore Line by as much as 10 minutes by having trains approach the airport from the west with a shorter traveling distance and decreased number of at-grade crossings (as few as seven grade crossings, as opposed to the twenty-three grade crossings in the current east approach to the airport). Split this incredibly long sentence (77 words).
• South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg First use: "South Bend mayor Pete Buttigieg". Second use: "Buttigieg". Similarly, "NICTD president", not "NICTD President". (MOS:JOBTITLE)
• The reason for this higher estimate was due to both inflation and challenges that the second study developed a greater understanding of. Avoid ending a sentence with a preposition.
• between Michigan City, Indiana and the station Needs a MOS:GEOCOMMA after "Indiana"
• Image captions that are complete sentences (#2 and #3) should end in periods.
• the Union Station Technology missing "Center"

Spot checks

• 4: "Slow and circuitous": One portion of the tracks in South Bend, near Bendix Driver, significantly halts overall travel time. That's one reason South Shore officials want to move the boarding station at the South Bend Airport from the East side to the West side. "They could make it a straight shot on the West side of the airport," says Kostielney. "They could travel at a higher speed and they wouldn't have to spend so much time winding around." Y
• 6: Parrott August 2018, used four times: Y
  • The goal is to move the station at the east end of South Bend International Airport to the west end, to cut the Chicago trip time by another 10 minutes and help spark a new cargo hub.
  • Rea, however, added that the Chamber’s top priority for the South Shore is moving it to the other side of the airport, where it could spark a new air-to-rail cargo hub.
  • In telling the common council Monday night that he wants to pursue a downtown station for the South Shore Line, Mayor Pete Buttigieg shed some light on what’s been a murky issue, and he excited some council members.
  • Buttigieg is touting the potential economic benefits of a new station near Four Winds Field.
• 20: Michael Noland, the South Shore Line’s president, agrees with South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg that a downtown South Shore station could be good for the city’s economy in the long run. But a new station at South Bend International Airport is a more attainable short-term goal, Noland said. Y
• 24: a proposed terminus located between the Union Station Technology Center building (on the south) and the Four Winds Field at Covaleski Stadium (on the north) (p3, PDF p7) Y
• 29: The long term vision of the city is to see the South Shore Line in downtown South Bend. “Over the years, buildings in the downtown had been torn down as people moved away,” Mueller said. “The possibilities for moving back and getting buildings in those areas is tremendous. Y

@Sammi Brie: All suggestions/matters/recommendations have been implemented/addressed. SecretName101 (talk) 02:49, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.