Talk:Protagonist

Thanos

User:AussieGenesis has added Thanos from Avengers: Infinity War as an example of a villainous protagonist. Since the core characters of the Avengers series are the Avengers, I'm inclined to consider their primary foe in any one of their films the antagonist rather than the protagonist. It would be different if they'd set up the story to present it from Thanos' point of view, so that viewers experienced all the action as his story, but that isn't the case. One or more Avengers is in almost every scene, while Thanos is absent from many scenes depicting their predicaments and their efforts to defeat him. In my view, it's their story, so Thanos isn't the protagonist. What do others think? Largoplazo (talk) 12:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

My personal reasoning for adding Thanos from Infinity War was as first, he actually was the character with the most time on screen, with 29 minutes. This is more than Captain America/Steve Rogers and Tony Stark/Iron Man combined (6 minutes and 18 minutes respectively). Thanos has 9.5 minutes more screen time than even the next most screened character in Infinity War, which is Gamora with 19.5 minutes of screen time. So, he fits the bill as the most prominent character and the centre of the story.

Second, he is the character who faces the most obstacles and is the character that is ultimately the propellant of the story. He is literally fighting against the universe, including the entirety of the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy, to obtain the Infinity Stones and do the snap. The characters in opposition of Thanos, while they certainly have big obstacles, they do not have to go through so many obstacles to achieve their goal of stopping Thanos. Basically everyone is backing them to achieve their goal. Thanos' goal is what drives the story, and for that matter driven much of the MCU. Thanos' pursuit of the Infinity Stones is what drives every other character to their actions, from Thor's journey to forge Stormbreaker, to Captain America and co.'s trip to Wakanda to destroy the Mind Stone, to Iron Man and co. fighting Thanos head on to hold him off.

Lastly, Thanos is tested by far the most out of all the characters. He's put through the wringer. Not to say other characters weren't, but on an emotional level especially, no other character faced that sort of test; doing the impossibly hard, killing half of the universe, for what they believe is the greater good, even if that means killing their favourite daughter. Thanos is not doing all that for the sake of being evil, he's doing it because he truly believes it's the only way. And that gets tested like nothing else. The only thing that could even mildly compare is Scarlet Witch having to kill Vision to "save" the universe, the only difference is that Thanos' test is on a far larger scale. So yeah, that's basically my overall argument for why Thanos is the protagonist; he perfectly fits the bill, more than any other character, even if he is evil. AussieGenesis (talk) 09:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)AussieGenesisAussieGenesis (talk) 09:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I reverted the addition of Thanos as a protagonist. It's ridiculous to consider him as anything other than the antagonist, and your 'analysis' is pure original research. Without at least a reliable source, it's completely unjustifiable to include him as an example. dimhue (talk) 06:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

I've no knowledge of Marvel stuff, but as well as well-sourced examples from literary theory, what is needed in the article is better sources for what 'protagonist' actually means: is it (a) the central character in the way the story is told; (b) the character whose needs and wants drive the action of the plot; (c) the hero or morally virtuous character seeking resolution; (d) the character who is closest to, most affected by, or causing, the inciting incident; (e) the point-of-view character or narrator. Often all of these coincide, which can lead to confusion. I think most people nowadays would opt for (a); (c) is usually seen as distinct, with examples of antihero protagonists; I recall reading books or essays on writing where protagonist is defined as (b) or (d), so as in John Clark's example above in some usages, the 'protagonist' may have a small role or not even appear. The OED definition is 'The chief character in a dramatic work. Hence, in extended use: the leading character, or one of the main characters, in any narrative work, as a poem, novel, film, etc'. I wonder if there is literary analysis of something like The Collector or Day of the Jackal where this is clarified. --Cedders^tk 12:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Considering Thanos's goals are what drive the plot of the movie, how is it "ridiculous" to consider him anything other than the antagonist? Without Thanos's quest, there are no infinity stones to protect and no movie. Everything moves to react to his actions. That clearly makes him the protagonist and the Avengers the antagonists. The only thing that's ridiculous, here, is your dismissal of AussieGenesis's point. Izuko (talk) 16:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Every film in the MCU series is about one or more Avengers and one or more nemeses they have to deal with. Endgame is about the Avengers dealing with their current threat, Thanos. That he's the enemy because he has goals, evil goals that drive him, distinguish him from perhaps no other villain in all of the history of fiction, including Loki, Ronan the Accuser, Red Skull, Aldrich Killian, Voldemort, or the Wicked Witch of the West in The Wizard of Oz (whereas she was the protagonist in the novel Wicked). These characters' goals "drive" the action insofar as they drive the attempts by the heroes—the protagonist, in the case of a single hero—to stop them. Largoplazo (talk) 20:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

References

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Examples

There should be Examples of Protagonist. 107.119.45.60 (talk) 03:43, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@107.x, seeing the recent edit history here, perhaps it would be best to propose any edits here first. - wolf 06:16, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Then you ought to be content because there are examples. Largoplazo (talk) 08:50, 30 March 2022 (UTC)