Talk:Protected state

Difference with protectorate

I've been dealing with all the links to this page and I've come across several making a distinction between a protected state and a protectorate, though I'm not clear on what the difference is. I first noticed and commented on it here. I'm going to hold off on disambiguating any more links until I get a clear answer. Qb42 (talk) 20:04, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Redirect to Protectorate#Protected_state

As three of the entries here are basically the same thing and the fourth is not something people are likely to be searching for, I propose converting this page into a redirect to Protectorate#Protected_state. (@Geysirhead: I assume you'll want to comment) Qb42 (talk) 05:46, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Qb42: I was drawn here by your earlier help request. I agree with your contention and support the idea of making the page a redirect again, this time a redirect to a specific section of Protectorate.

The spysweeper entry on the DAB page violates some of the DAB rules anyway. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 05:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear @Kautilya3:, @Qb42:, @Jmcgnh:, let's clear the mess!

• Protected state as a state represented by a Protecting power (not to confuse with protection as in case of a protectorate) "The term Protecting Power is comparatively simple of definition. It is a state which has accepted the responsibility of protecting the interests of another state in the territory of a third, with which, for some reason, such as war, the second state does not maintain diplomatic relations.2 Because the protection is most frequently rendered to nationals of the protected state found in the third state, the former is often referred to as the Power of Origin and the latter as the Power of Residence." [1]
• Protected state as a weaker version of a protectorate as in case of British protected state
• Protected state as in literally in German Schutzstaat a synonym to a Protectorate, or also vise versa: "However, in practice the word “protectorate” is widely used to describe what is actually a “protected state”." https://www.e-publicacoes.uerj.br/index.php/muralinternacional/article/view/42110

These three things are all different. Therefore I oppose a redirect!--Geysirhead (talk) 13:00, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear @Kautilya3:, you are also invited!--Geysirhead (talk) 14:01, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I am afraid the "protected state" in the sense of a receiver of diplomatic protection has no business doing anything here. It only occurs in the context of that particular transaction, not used in isolation. Nobody calls United States a "protected state" just because it happened to receive protection in the Iran saga. This is not a stand-alone concept, and requires no pages or redirects.

Even in the context of protectortes, the term "protected state" often occurs in the non-technical sense, because one has to talk about the protected state and the protecting state. These localised usages do not need any special treatment. It is also not uncommon to use the terms "protectorate" and "protected state" as if they mean the same thing. But in the technical sense, the distinction is as clear as daylight. A protectorate doesn't appear on world maps, and even if it does, it will be clearly marked as a protectorate and coloured with the same colour as the protecting state. On the other hand, a protected state will be marked just as any other independent state. I am afraid this is too important a concept to brushed under the carpet.

So, I support Qb42's proposal of redirecting to Protectorate#Protected state. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:24, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@Geysirhead: the trouble I have with your argument is that it is making dictionary distinctions between things that can be confusingly similar, but which are not covered as standalone topics in Wikipedia articles. And yet further distinctions would be needed to cover additional special cases. If you want Wikipedia to contain content that explains and explores these distinctions, it should occur on the protectorate page. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 07:05, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all very much! I just don't want the protected state in the context of protecting power to be confused with the protected state in the context of protectorate.Geysirhead (talk) 08:49, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I have now made some edits to the Protecting power page to avoid any possible confusion. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Correct, Protected power is used ca. 10 times more often than Protected state in the context of Protecting power, when I google it in scientific papers. --Geysirhead (talk) 13:55, 31 December 2020 (UTC)