Talk:Proto-Mayan language

working on a soundrules table

Continuing discussion started on Talk:Mayan languages. Here, i've done 5 lines to give an idea of what I mean. Later if Madman makes his spiffy color-coded language geneology tree, we could use those colors by column instead of red (and of course include that image over in this article. --Homunq 22:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to say, I like my version better. Particularly for the *ŋ line, it gives the information in a way that yours doesn't. Also by showing the preserved as well as the changed sounds, it could help a non-linguist start to understand what the deal is with sound shifts. If you don't give me a counterargument, I will (eventually) put mine in (though I agree with you that "K'iche'an" was a mistake). Good job, though.--Homunq 05:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

You may be right it does look nice. The thing that worries me is that sometimes we will have to be very careful in order not to convey false information - because the rules in the sources that I am woring from only mentioned shared innovations for groups, this means that when one group shares a change that doesn't necesarrily leave the other languages unchanged, they may hve their own changes that aren't mentioned in my data. Also in your form of the table I think it would be better to show actual cognate words instead of just the phonemes. But I currently doen't have a cognate list for mayan that includes wastek - so i'll have to track down wastek cognates from other sources.Maunus 09:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Overview of soundrules from Proto-Mayan to modern Mayan language groups

Proto-Mayan	Huastecan	Yukatekan	Ch'olan	Q'anjobalan	Mamean	K'iche'an
w	b	w	w	w	w	w
*ho/*hu	wo,wu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu
*ŋ	h	n	n	n	x	x
*q,*q'	k,k'	k,k'	k,k'	k,k'	q,q'	q,q'
*-h	-h	-h	-h	-h	-h	-j Kaqchikel, Tz'utjil only

Overview of soundrules from Proto-Mayan to modern Mayan language groups

*e: > i, *o: > u raising of long mid vowels	Ch'olan
*a: > ɨ	Ch'olan, Yucatecan
*-t > -tʃ	Yucatecan
*ŋ > x	Quichean-Mamean
CVʔVC > CVʔC shortening of syllables with medial glottal stop	Quichean-Mamean
*r > t	Mamean
*r > j	Mamean
*t > tʃ	Mamean
*tʃ > tʂ	Mamean
*-ɓ > -ʔ/VCV_# In polysyllabic forms final implosive b became a glottal stop	Kaqchikel, Tz'utjil

I don't know how to use the talk page properly, but I have some concerns about the main page that I want to voice without changing it prematurely. The implosive is listed as an ejective, which it is not. This is a minor issue and can be fixed by simply redoing the table. The assertion that a colonial Huastecan spelling of <cuyx> does not equal [kʷiʃ] seems pretty shaky. Spanish orthography only allows two methods of expressing a [kʷi] syllable: <cui> or <cuy>. Perhaps the assumption is that <-uy> is to be pronounced as in Spanish <muy>, but this doesn't seem like a sure thing; I don't know of any Spanish words that allow a <uy> to come before a coda consonant. This issue should be addressed and backed up with solid sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.35.75 (talk) 19:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

History

This article should have have at least one additional section which would explain the historical context of the Proto-Mayan language: i.e. when it is thought to have been spoken, its urheimat, features of its vocabulary with respect to the cultural, geographical and temporal context, and its historical relevance. — 129.21.145.181 (talk) 13:51, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

use in music

(in reconstructed form, that is) I recall seeing an interview with a K'iche' musician who used p-Maya-influenced lyrics. Unfortunately I don't know how to find this interview again...would have been one of https://proweb.myersinfosys.com/fnx/atoz Arlo James Barnes 03:01, 7 February 2024 (UTC)