Talk:Proto-Mongoloid

Specify indigenious people and Yayoi people

In Wikipedia, it says the indigenious people and Yayoi were the beginning of the modern Japanese. It needs to be specified who the indigenious people were. Evan Wenning (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

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Where is it written that Proto-Mongoloid theory is outdated. Also why not include Ainu people included when the descent from Jomon people. Why is Southeast Asian included when they look Asian ?

I have not read anything about Proto-Mongoloid theory being outdated and that it no longer has any value in modern anthropology science. I checked the links but you can't find anything about it being a wrong disproven theory.

All it says is this "the answer to the question whether races exist in humans is clear and unambiguous: no. " By this logic there is no such thing as white people, black people, asian people, dravidian people, or ect

Not sure why removed Ainu people as part of the Proto-Mongoloid group when Ainu people are descendants of Jomon people. Physically Southeast Asian look like a Malay Mongoloid type. While different to the Yellow Asian Mongoloid such as Chinese, Mongolian, Japanese, Korean, Manchus and many Turkic group they still belong to Asian group but darker skin, less slant eyes, and lower nose bridge.

Ainu people should be included. The Jōmon people of Japan, Southeast Asians, Pacific islanders, and Native Americans were thought to be most closely related to the proto-Mongoloid group. Vamlos (talk) 09:07, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Of course, the sources given in the article speak of races in the biological sense. For the Ainu: Where are your sources ? --Rsk6400 (talk) 09:51, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

In a biological sense race doesn't excist. The source basically means temrs like Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, Dravianianoid, Australoid, Amerinedianoid/Americannoid doesn't biologically exist.

On the Ainu people's page got these source that clearly says Ainu are descendants of Jomon people.

In 2021, it was confirmed that the Hokkaido Jōmon population formed from "Terminal Upper-Paleolithic people" (TUP) indigenous to Hokkaido and Northern Eurasia and from migrants of Jōmon period Honshu. The Ainu themselves formed from these heterogeneous Hokkaido Jōmon and from a more recent Northeast Asian/Okhotsk population

Source https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1040618221000240

Recent autosomal evidence suggests that the Ainu derive a majority of their ancestry from the local Jōmon period people of Hokkaido. A 2019 study by Gakuhari et al., analyzing ancient Jōmon remains, finds about 79.3% Hokkaido Jōmon ancestry in the Ainu

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdf

Another 2019 study (by Kanazawa-Kiriyama et al.) finds about 66% Hokkaido Jōmon ancestry.

Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari site in Hokkaido, Japan|journal=Anthropological Science|volume=127|issue=2|year=2019|pages=83–108

Ainu themselves are genetically 66% to 79.3% Jomon meaning they are predominately Jomon meaning they are also proto-Mongoloid (predominately) so I don't see it doesn't make sense to include Ainu into the proto-Mongoloid groupVamlos (talk) 11:43, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

If you agree that Mongoloid doesn't exist, you should also agree that proto-Mongoloid doesn't exist. --Rsk6400 (talk) 12:43, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything about proto-Mongoloid being disproven. It's only disproven if you considered all other racial terms disproven. Even if Mongoloid doesn't exist it still has it's own wikipedia page. I should have the right to put Ainu in the proto-mongoloid section next to " Jōmon people of Japan, Southeast Asians, Pacific islanders, and Native Americans ". Ainu are the closest descendants to Jomon people and are predominately Jomon (2/3 and 4/5 ). It's only natural that I can edit Ainu in the Proto-Mongoloid wiki page.Vamlos (talk) 13:27, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

You said it yourself: In a biological sense, races don't exist. And "proto-Mongoloid" refers to a race in the biological sense. Your sources don't say that Ainus were considered being close to proto-Mongoloids, only that they are close to Jomon people. --Rsk6400 (talk) 16:11, 5 September 2021 (UTC)