Talk:Proximity card

Cards can contain more than one type of technology

Till few months back I used to believe that contactless (or proximity) cards are either smart cards or HID cards. But few days back I saw magnetic stripe cards in use as contactless card. How is this possible & what technology is that?

I think, it was a someting like [Pay Pass] card. It's no problem to have a contact chip, a contactless chip and a magnetic stripe on single plastic scrap.. MikeKn 07:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Computer Security Proximity Card

Very specifically, I was looking for information on Xyloc tm cards by Ensure Technologies. This was the closest article I could find. Is this the correct place for more information on this technology? Nickstuckert 00:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The little bit about paywave is non-localised, arbitrary and not very informative. I'll remove it until it's able to be substantiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.205.144.178 (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

rfid vs contactless smart card

As far as i'm aware these are 2 different things although some contactless proximity cards can act as normal rfid devices in that they don't have any complex interactions behind them. If this is the case then the intro paragraph needs to be fixed to reflect this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.145.170 (talk) 21:42, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Merge with contactless smart cards

I think that this article should be merged into contactless smart cards. What (if anything) is the difference between a "proximity card" and a "contactless smartcard"? Mitch Ames (talk) 02:43, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

This overview says that smart cards and proximity cards should not be considered synonymous, because the 125 kHz standard was not "smart". Sources seem to draw a distinction 1. There seems to be a lot of standards out there, and maybe some of them don't have the data capacity to be referred to as smart. --Chetvorno^TALK 03:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, so a "contactless smart card" must be "smart", but a "proximity card" need only be "contactless" and not "smart" - that makes sense. The first sentence of the article clearly needs fixing, because it says "A proximity card ... is a smart card which [is contactless] ...". Presumably we should just delete the word "smart". Mitch Ames (talk) 04:27, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Smart cards and proximity cards really are different, and not just because of frequencies. Proximity cards simply signal their presence, are generally used to unlock doors. They don't "do" anything other than say "I'm card 123456," and might have a building/site-specific code too. This is a good overview. Smart cards have other capabilities, though they can be combined with proximity cards to allow building access as well. I concur with prior comments that this piece needs a significant rewrite. Plain Text (talk)

Radio waves or radio frequency signal?

Regarding this change from "radio waves" to "radio frequency signals/field"... If the readers and cards are not using radio waves, then some clarification is required, because radio frequency is merely a rate of oscillation, not a specific type of power or communications - except when it is used as a synonym for radio waves.

ISO/IEC 14443-2 Identification cards -- Contactless integrated circuit cards -- Proximity cards -- Part 2 Radio frequency power and signal interface uses the term "RF" without defining it other than as "radio frequency", but Part 1: Physical characteristics does say

4.4 Alternating magnetic field

The [card] shall continue to operate as intended after continuous exposure to a magnetic field of an average level of 10 A/m rms at 13,56 MHz. The averaging time is 30 seconds and the maximum level of the magnetic field is limited to 12 A/m rms.

Should this article specifically state "magnetic field"? The units (H, measured in A/m) are consistent with Magnetic field#Definitions, units, and measurement.

Should Radio frequency#RF as a synonym for wireless be updated to say "synonym for magnetic <something>"? Do we have a specific reference that we can cite for the definition (of RF = ... magnetic ...)? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I read that as more of a 'cards will survive a magnetic field of' than 'cards operate at a magnetic field of'.Teapeat (talk) 13:37, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

True, but the use of the term "magnetic field" with a strength measured in units of 10 A/m (the same units as defined for normal usage) and a frequency of 13.56 MHz (the same as used for normal communications) confirms (or at least is consistent with) the "RF" being a magnetic field. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

The second reference in the article says that powering the card works by resonant energy transfer. Resonant energy transfer doesn't use radio waves, it's a near field (inductive) effect. But it does use radio frequencies. (It doesn't propagate to infinity because you need the E and M fields to be perpendicular for that, but if you predominately only have one or other, then the field stays near to the generator and doesn't radiate significant power.) I did start to rewrite the article, but I reverted because I couldn't prove that proximity cards don't use radio for the comms channel, and it's theoretically possible that some cards could use it, but I couldn't find any reference to that either way, but the official standards all use the term 'radio frequency' probably for the same reason, it's a more generic term than 'radio waves'.Teapeat (talk) 13:37, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that all proximity cards only use magnetic fields for both powering and comms, but some other types of cards, are doubtless basically radio transponders. But they would tend be much more expensive, and I don't think they're true proximity cards.Teapeat (talk) 13:37, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

We still have the problem that the article currently defines only the frequency of the communication, not the means (radio waves, magnetic field, electric field, whatever ...). Mitch Ames (talk) 11:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

300 kHz Systems Also Existed

In the mid 90's, I developed (passive tag) proximity access control systems for an OEM in Ireland. Our systems were 300 kHz and were sold in Ireland, the UK, France, Italy, and Norway. I have no idea what became of these 300 kHz systems (we weren't the only one), since it now seems that they don't exist any more, but they certainly did in 1995. Unfortunately, I have no reference for this other than that I was actually there.EmmetCaulfield (talk) 01:31, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Active cards working on 125 kHz may not be called vicinity cards

The vicinity cards, which is redirected to ISO/IEC_15693, are those passive cards working on 13.56 MHz. So the active cards working on 125 kHz should not be called as 'vicinity cards'. King's Way IO (talk) 03:25, 24 Dec 2018 (UTC)