Talk:Qilombo

Suggestions for improvements

Hiya I thought I'd make some comments here for User:MariaElle about the page. It's a great start and needs a bit of work. I suggested looking at Red Emma's, Bluestockings (bookstore) and Forte Prenestino as pages for somewhat similar projects. Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) is worth a read since we need to establish notability for wikipedia, which is done by using references to indepth coverage in reliable secondary sources. Without establishing notability, then the article won't be approved. That doesn't say anything about the project itself, this just about the wikipedia criteria for notability. I'm discussing the links you used and also found some others.

I would say these sources fit that criteria and therefore should be used for the basis of the article:

• https://www.theselc.org/afrikatown_tour_and_land_liberation
• https://www.workers.org/2015/04/19376/
• https://viewpointmag.com/2016/02/01/strategy-after-ferguson/
• https://resist.org/grantee/qilombo/

These sources are reliable but the mention of Qilombo is fleeting so they might be worth using but don't really contribute to establishing notability:

• https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/diy-in-crisis-has-oaklands-ghost-ship-fire-jeopardized-the-underground-114144/
• https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/3122
• https://openspace.sfmoma.org/2018/05/creating-the-collective-challenges-on-23rd-avenue/
• https://web.archive.org/web/20120604014710/https://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/black-bloc-anarchist-turn.html

These sources are fine to use but they are all local news sources so should just be used to back specific claims like a gallery show or whatnot, as you have already been doing. They don't add much to notability, being local:

• https://www.eastbayexpress.com/WhatTheFork/archives/2015/04/03/west-oakland-activists-vow-to-defend-afrika-town-community-garden
• https://www.dailycal.org/2015/12/04/hannah-gentrification/
• https://crpbayarea.org/cultural-resilience-community-engagement-and-addressing-displacement-from-an-equity-standpoint/
• https://www.postnewsgroup.com/qilombo-to-host-benefit-concert-for-donations-to-homeless/
• https://xpressmagazine.org/13317/uncategorized/determined-for-change/
• https://sfbayview.com/2016/05/come-to-the-afrikatown-anti-eviction-block-party-on-may-28/
• https://thestreetspirit.org/2019/02/01/oakland-community-social-center-raided-by-police/
• http://www.thecampanil.com/qilombo-fights-gentrification-in-community-amidst-own-battles/
• https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/best-anarchist-hangout/BestOf?oid=3288562

This link - https://www.leagle.com/decision/incaco20180305000 is great to include but doesn't count towards establishing notability for wikipedia since court documents are considered

Right now there's a lot of facebook links which aren't that necessary. Per WP:FACEBOOK facebook links are acceptable under certain circumstances, but if it's an event rpeort, much better to use a local news link. I would chop out most if not all of the facebook links. If that means a certain event is not mentioned, that's ok.

I'd say the "Notable Events, Workshops, and Series" section doesn't need all the subheaders, it could be rolled together.

Hopefully by comparing this article to Red Emma's, Bluestockings (bookstore) and Forte Prenestino you can see what i am on about!

The quote to explain the name is great, but the quote to expalin the transition is too big. Also better to reference the libcom interview to its original source, viewpointmag.

It's great to have images on the article, I would say right now the images slightly interfere with reading pleasure. They could be made smaller and maybe pruned a bit.

I hope these comments are helpful in getting the article published on wikipedia! Mujinga (talk) 21:26, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Great, thank you so much! I will work on these in the coming days

great let me know if you need a hand with it. by the way on wikipedia talkpages, we sign our posts using ~~~~, known as the four tildes - you should see a button to press to inset them between the edit box and the edit summary box, if that makes any sense at all! Mujinga (talk) 14:42, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

did a bunch of updates! would love some more feedback whenever you get a chance. thank you so much for helping me cull my sources. guessing i may need to cut more, but would love to get your eyes on it again! MariaElle (talk) 06:04, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

nice one the article is looking much improved! what jumps out at me right now is that there are still a lot of links to outside wikipedia, since within the main article links should only point to another article in wikipedia (or be in a citation). so for example you've got Planting Justice which could just be Planting Justice and the videos section would probably best be deleted. Mujinga (talk) 17:38, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

ignorable advice

I tripped over you as I was on Mujinga's page. My own advice might be that you should draft this down to the best two paragraphs with some solid refs that explain why this is notable. Put the rest to one side. There are editors who have written a hundred a so articles or more who could publish an article of this length but you are going to face a lot of minor points and the major point is notability. You can persuade the community that this article is notable in a couple of paragraphs (or not) .... get that published THEN add the rest of the stuff and learn about other style issues. Good luck Victuallers (talk) 20:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you I will do this! MariaElle (talk) 06:04, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

This was good advice from Victuallers. The article was assessed and not accepted due to it not having an encyclopedic tone, so I've rewritten it a bit, I think it's ok now. See what you think MariaElle, when you are happy with it I'd say resubmit it. Anything that I've changed is not "lost", it will be in the edit history. Mujinga (talk) 17:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes this looks great!! Thank you so much Mujinga. This is exactly the kind of help I needed, then hopefully I can add more stuff and learn more about wikipedia style/culture/rules. I appreciate your help, and would love to ask you a few more questions later if/when the submission is approved. Thanks so much again! MariaElle (talk) 21:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Sure thing MariaElle I'm happy to answer any questions if I can. So just to be clear it's not resubmitted yet, I didn't do that for you. And it might get knocked back again, that's just part of the process, but I think if you do resubmit it, it should be accepted this time round (and if not then we can work on it some more) Mujinga (talk) 21:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Great, just resubmitted. Thanks Mujinga! MariaElle (talk) 01:15, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Qilombo/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Golden (talk · contribs) 22:24, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Resolved matters

Resolved matters Lead Timeline of events in the second sentence could be improved. I suggest changing then changed its name and became a space for local Black and Brown people from 2014 onwards. to something along these lines: "but changed its name and focus in 2014 to become a space for local Black and Brown people." makes sense, rewritten, thanks for the suggestion Mujinga (talk) 12:35, 29 May 2023 (UTC) If you're using American English, change centre to "center". Good spot, that was prob me making the error! Mujinga (talk) 12:36, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Sentence structure of the last sentence needs to be improved. The sudden introduction of information about eviction lacks context, so it might be helpful to add information about why or by whom Qilombo was evicted to make it clearer for the reader. done Mujinga (talk) 22:01, 30 May 2023 (UTC) First sentence combines information about the location and time of operation of Qilombo into a single phrase. This can make it more difficult for readers to quickly understand the sentence. I suggest changing from 2011 through 2019 to "that operated from 2011 to 2019". This separates the information about the location and time of operation into two distinct phrases, which makes it easier to process. I would agree with this, but I'm a Br-Eng speaker and from 2011 through 2019 is I think US-Eng, so I'll wait to see if MariaElle has a comment on this one Mujinga (talk) 12:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Yes, I agree with this edit - thanks! MariaElle (talk) 16:09, 2 June 2023 (UTC) MariaElle can I check what you mean? So you think the current version is good? Please change if not! Mujinga (talk) 22:52, 2 June 2023 (UTC) ? Mujinga (talk) 01:13, 7 June 2023 (UTC) Just updated, it now says ""that operated from 2011 to 2019" MariaElle (talk) 06:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC) History Add comma after In January 2014 and replace the comma after closed its doors with "and". done Mujinga (talk) 22:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Remove unnecessary comma after opened in 2011. if we have a comma after In January 2014, I think it's consistent to have one after opened in 2011 as well Mujinga (talk) 22:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Sure, that's fine. — Golden call me maybe? the first quilombos (from the Kimbundu word "kilombo") were communities Maroons set up between the 16th and 19th centuries by African people in South America as refuges from slavery and colonialism. - Do the terms "Maroons" and "African people in South America" here refer to the same group of people? yes i think only Maroons is needed Mujinga (talk) 22:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Well there were Maroon communities in North America and the Caribbean as well. The term "quilombo" was a specifically South American/Brazilian term, so the clarification may be useful. I also think the word "Maroon" can refer to an individual person as well as a whole community. It should probably say "Maroon communities," not "communities Maroon." MariaElle (talk) 16:19, 2 June 2023 (UTC) I'll let Mujinga address what MariaElle said, but another point about that sentence: Should it really say the name had been changed because the first quilombos (from the Kimbundu word "kilombo") were communities Maroons set up? "Because" doesn't feel like the right word here if I'm understanding the sentence correctly. Maybe "in honor of" would work better? — Golden call me maybe? I agree on saying "Maroon communities" not "communities Maroon", but the sentence as it was referred to "communities Maroons set up between the 16th and 19th centuries". In any case, MariaElle please feel free to rephrase and clarify! Mujinga (talk) 22:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC) Afrika Town Hyphenate self defense. done and wikilinked Mujinga (talk) 12:39, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Change started by members of Qilombo in 2014, which aimed to to "started by members of Qilombo in 2014 that aimed to" - This removes the unnecessary comma and improves sentence structure. done! Mujinga (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Add comma after free breakfasts. not convinced it's needed but it doesn't seem inconsistent, so added Mujinga (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2023 (UTC) The garden was built on land owned by real estate investor Noel Yi and 2015, he began a campaign to evict the garden. - I imagine and 2015 is an error. Splitting the sentence might improve its readability. indeed, semi-colon added Mujinga (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Closure The first sentence of this section ends with the same word as the beginning of the second sentence and needs to be adjusted. Additionally, there should be a comma after Ghost Ship warehouse fire. I suggest rewriting the sentence like this: "In November 2016, SMC East Bay renewed their lease with Qilombo. However, after the Ghost Ship warehouse fire, they cancelled the agreement and sent city inspectors who informed the project that they could not organize public events." — Golden call me maybe? I'll leave this for MariaElle Mujinga (talk) 22:52, 2 June 2023 (UTC) ? Mujinga (talk) 01:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC) Done! MariaElle (talk) 06:24, 7 June 2023 (UTC) References Add website name for the anarchistnews.org source. done Mujinga (talk) 20:28, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Add date for theselc.org source. done Mujinga (talk) 20:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Add archive link for the Leagle source. I tried to archive it automatically and manually on archive.org but wasn't able to, maybe leagle blocks archiving? In a way leagle could be said to be the archive itself of the courtcase. Pausing to see what you (and MariaElle) think about it You're correct. Leagle does seem to function somewhat as an archive in its own right. I'll consider this resolved as it's not much of an issue. — Golden call me maybe? I can't find anything about Qilombo in ref #10. So the paragraph is cited to 10 & 11, and I'd say all 10 is being used to do currently is to back "real estate mogul". We could add an extra sentence to make it clear he is a foreclosure investor backed by hedge funds, which would be backed by 10. Mujinga (talk) 20:28, 30 May 2023 (UTC) I've rejigged this section a bit now Mujinga (talk) 22:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Reference issue is solved but the changes made to "Closure" section need to be reviewed. — Golden call me maybe?

Additional comments

• Earwig shows no copyvio.
• Pictures in the article are relevant and free.
• Short, but informative article. Happy to pass once the above points are addressed.

— Golden ^{call me maybe?} 22:24, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Overall

Hi Golden, thanks a lot for taking on the review. I co-nominated with the page creator MariaElle so if it's ok I'll wait a for them to join and answer the comments as it's their first GA nomination. Mujinga (talk) 11:19, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Mujinga: Of course, take your time. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 11:36, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Golden thanks for your patience - I just thought yesterday to send MariaElle an email via "Email a user" so perhaps we can see if they are online over the weekend, if not I can start to answer next week. Cheers! Mujinga (talk) 08:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! Sounds good. Cheers! — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 17:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Golden I've made a start and if MariaElle pops up as a US-Eng speaker then all the better, stopping here for now but have time to hopefully get this wrapped up this week, cheers Mujinga (talk) 12:45, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

There's now answers on every query. Also I did a sweep to see if there were any new sources and found a few more bits to add in. Mujinga (talk) 22:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I was away traveling. Thank you so much for these edits, they look great!! My only feedback was replacing "communities Maroon" with "Maroon communities." Dunno if that's a Br-Eng thing, but "communities Maroon" sounds odd in US-Eng. Thanks again for all your work on this! MariaElle (talk) 16:25, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Most points have been resolved. I have one more additional concern with the History and Closure sections which I've noted above. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 21:36, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Golden thanks for the answers - I'm just popping in now and prob won't be online much over the weekend, so hopefully MariaElle has a chance to finish up the review (sorry if it's fixing errors I just introduced). Cheers to you both, Mujinga (talk) 22:56, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

"In honor of" instead of "because of" is a welcome edit, though the grammar will have to be adjusted accordingly. Nice catch, thank you! MariaElle (talk) 00:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I have just made this update, let me know if I missed anything! MariaElle (talk) 00:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi MariaElle, I think there's two points still open above, I've marked them with a ? Mujinga (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Great, thank you! Just made updates to the first sentence and to the sentence about Ghost Ship (where the two ?s were) - let me know if I missed anything else! MariaElle (talk) 06:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Nice one MariaElle, by the way making edits minor (marked with m) should only be for things like adding a comma or deleting whitespace, your edits were substantial and should have an edit summary which says what you have done. I think we've done everything now, so paging @Golden:. Mujinga (talk) 10:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Mujinga and MariaElle: All of my concerns have been addressed satisfactorily. Thank you! I am pleased to approve this article as a Good Article. Have a great day! — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 14:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.