Talk:Queen's College, Taunton

Assessment as of March 2007

Hello all, and thank you for contributing to this school site. I'm part of the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools/Assessment team, and I'm reviewing this page. I'm currently giving it a grade of Stub on the Wikipedia 1.0 Assessment Scale and an importance of Low on this importance scale.

My reasoning is as follows: No history information or references. Needs pictures and much more cited information. Adam McCormick 04:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal of BLP content

@Eco-climber, let's discuss the inclusion of this content, which is sourced to the Daily Mirror, which isn't a great source. Please do not add it back without discussing here first. Valereee (talk) 22:02, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I just left a comment on user talk:Eco-climber#Queen's College, Taunton. See wp:DAILYMIRROR regarding discussion on it being tabloid journalism and of questionable use. Especially on a wp:BLP. Adakiko (talk) 22:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

It's not a BLP...

Also it's cross referenced to UK government website. Daily mirror is another source.

The wiki users who have edited this section for about a year so not need your permission to post. You are trying to insist that it's a BLP and that people have to follow your interpretation. Why have you ignored the UK government source also given?

Is the ex headmaster or the school know to you & why the defensive stance on a publically important matter that has found the school and head to be at fault?

Eco-climber (talk) 00:31, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

@Eco-climber: That content is covered by wp:BLP; the first sentence: Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page.. See my reply below. Thank you Adakiko (talk) 09:16, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

@Eco-climber, Adakiko is correct. Whether or not the article is itself a biography, it still has to conform to the BLP policy: all content about living persons, and especially any negative content, must be cited to a reliable source and preferably several. I've added a BLP template. Valereee (talk) 13:24, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and to be clear: no, I do not have any WP:COI with anything in this article. I am in Cincinnati and had never even heard of this school when I ended up here from Martin Pipe, an article I'd been working to improve. Valereee (talk) 13:28, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Citations for above

• John Siddle (23 October 2018). "Headmaster spared punishment for failing to report pupil's alleged rape and ex-pupil's suicidal thoughts". Daily Mirror. Retrieved 14 November 2022.
• "Mr Christopher Alcock: Professional conduct panel outcome - Panel decision and reasons on behalf of the Secretary of State for Education" (PDF). Teaching Regulation Agency. September 2018. Retrieved 14 November 2022.
• Phil Hill (23 June 2016). "Queen's College, Taunton, headmaster Chris Alcock resigned over 'inappropriate downloads and adult relationships'". Somerset County Gazette. Retrieved 14 November 2022.
• Natalie Evans (24 June 2016). "Headteacher at top public school quits amid police probe over 'downloading porn at work'". Daily Mirror. Retrieved 14 November 2022.</ref>

Comment: I was in the process of reformatting the citations - I'll leave them here. (edit- moved this comment to bottom to demarcate my talk. Adakiko (talk) 09:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC)) Adakiko (talk) 22:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ada.

Thanks for adding the Somerset gazette. Why delete the Bridgewater Mercury reference?

I think the pdf you reference is the same as the one I referenced before?

Happy to work with u to make this a better more informative section with greater referencing:)

• https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/750313/Alcock_C_15500-_SoS_decision__redacted__for_Publishing.pdf
• http://www.bridgwatermercury.co.uk/news/14569617.REVEALED__Disgraced_headmaster__downloaded_inappropriate_material_and_had_inappropriate_adult_relationships_/

Eco-climber (talk) 00:38, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

@Eco-climber: Please thread/indent your posts per WP:THREAD? I threaded your talk here.

If you click on the bridgwatermercury link, it redirects to an identical article on the Somerset gazette page. So I changed the link. Your citations were jumbled. See what they looked like here (#3 & #4). I was in the process of reformatting them when the wp:administrator user:Valereee removed the section; an action I support, BTW.

The Daily Mirror is tabloid journalism and they are known to play up a scandal, so those shouldn't be used. The government source is wp:primary and should not stand on its own. That leaves the Somorset article which really isn't enough. Other sources are needed. I strongly recommend that you interact with Valereee in a civil manner. Cheers Adakiko (talk) 09:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, the Bridgwater Mercury / Somerset Gazette is a relatively unknown paper, so it's status as RS is unknown. Adakiko (talk) 09:28, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

reversion

@Eco-climber, let's discuss. Valereee (talk) 22:50, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

hello Adakiko & Valereee.

thx for your work on trying to improve this section. It would be a great shame to see it deleted & for these issues of awful governance & leadership at this school brushed under the carpet yet again.

Could Valereee & @Adakiko & others work with me to rewrite this section?

the physical abuse & sexual & psychological abuse & trauma that is institutional at many/ most British public & government schools has become a major topic in public discourse in recent years in the uk. However the schools & many public authorities are repeatedly failing to get to grips with the whole matter.

i agree with valiee about care being taken around chris Alcock. The section should not be primarily about him, but it should reference the investigation & findings & the ex pupil suicide.

I reiterate my point about it being mainly the governance of the school & from reading the gov uk remote & the media article, the school governors & supervision of head master’s behaviour are the key issues.

evidence was given that the matters were first raised in 2009, but the hearing took place 9 years later in 2018;

"He became headteacher at Queens in 2001 and lived in the headmaster's house at the school with his wife Linda, 58, - also a teacher at the school - and three kids.

Giving evidence to the panel, Gill Wilson, who was Mr Alcock's deputy, said she first blew the whistle over his relationship with Miss Crew to the Chair of Governors in September 2009.

She said the school was aware that Miss Crew - identified at the hearing as pupil A - had been self-harming because of 'issues going on at home' - but that Mr Alcock would himself clean the wounds.

Mrs Wilson said: "I went in to see Mr Alcock and I saw him through the spyhole in full embrace with Pupil A.

"I was concerned over that over-familiarity with Pupil A and Mr Alcock."

Mrs Wilson said pupils would often stay in the head's office until 7pm.

She said: "The head treated many of the pupils as friends. But there are boundaries.

"When the head had pupils in his office, they were sitting there for hours. Some of these pupils are vulnerable children."

here is another reference.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-45943824

general references to the huge issue of both government schools & public schools (aka private - confusing naming issue in uk schools) are here;

98,000 pupils report rape & sexual abuse at schools in uk:

https://www.everyonesinvited.uk/

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-review-into-sexual-abuse-in-schools

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges

School abuse: 'Rape culture' warning as 8,000 report incidents

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56558487

Thank u for your thoughts, efforts & input. Eco-climber (talk) 15:04, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Hey, @Eco-climber. None of the general references to the size of the problem can be used. We also can only use reliable secondary sources (so none of the government reports, panel reports, etc.) that discuss these particular incidents, and even those we wouldn't use the person's name unless it was broadly publicized. We probably wouldn't report unless he'd been convicted of something.

I might see something like adding "A former headmaster at the school was found guilty by a professional conduct panel of "unacceptable professional conduct" with the Somerset source as a citation. It looks like they've got some relationship with the BBC, so I'll assume they're RS. I've made that change. Valereee (talk) 15:38, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Age range

I've just added citations for the info I could find matches for on gov.uk (archive link). I also took the opportunity to update the enrolment figure. (I forgot I'd done this and marked the edit as minor, which was incorrect; sorry about that.) Something I've left alone and which probably ought to be fixed is that while gov.uk gives the age range as "3 to 19", the article says both "0-18" in the intro and "3 months to 18 years" in the infobox. I don't know if the gov.uk figure excludes the younger age ranges because they're not counted as "school" or whatever. AlexGallon (talk) 20:47, 12 January 2024 (UTC)