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Name
editI just put it here for now on @SnowFire:'s suggestion. I'm ambivalent; since you're more experienced with the project, @PresN:, can you weigh in on Quina (FF) vs. Quina Quen? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- Basically, for why I suggest this title - see WP:COMMONNAME. Fictional characters aren't real people, so the arguments to use "full names" for real people (like being accurate) don't really apply. The "common name" should be used instead. Some of the examples there include King K. Rool (not: King "Krusha" K. Rool), Sailor Moon (character) (not: Usagi Tsukino), and Darth Vader (not: Anakin Skywalker). The main argument to use "Quen" is to avoid a parenthetical disambiguator and use WP:NATURAL disambiguation, and while I'm a fan of natural disambiguation, it works best when the extension is at least somewhat familiar. But Quina's last name comes up just too rarely - it's not used often in sources and it's not used often in FF9. Quina is just Quina. SnowFire (talk) 20:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's a valid argument, though I'd argue that the examples used are different; Krusha is a nickname, while Sailor Moon and Darth Vader are identities used to mask their true identities. I think that the project generally prefers to use the surname if possible. I think, as far as FF9 is concerned, Garnet is the only one who is just her first name, which makes sense since it's very cumbersome. Otherwise, we have Vivi Ornitier, Zidane Tribal, and Freya Crescent. The same is true for the FF6, FF7, and FF8 character articles. Also, in a Google search, while Quen is definitely not the most common, it is not absent; 25,000 results doesn't suggest to me that it's that rare. I also checked reliable sources, and I found around 700 sources that mentioned their surname. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- I honestly forgot Quina had a last name. We're not currently consistent, even within FF9- Zidane Tribal, but Garnet (FF). I'm mostly ambivalent, but I prefer using the (FF) instead of the last name in general, as Final Fantasy characters generally don't have their last name used in-game much and are generally referred to as just e.g. "Cloud", "Squall", "Zidane". --PresN 22:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think the surnames get mentioned sometimes in source, sure, but like once and then never again I also did a quick check of https://www.neoseeker.com/final-fantasy-ix/faqs/52109-script-d1.html , which doesn't show drawn titles on screen (so not a total script), but of what was transcribed, there are 0 occurrences of Tribal, Crescent, Quen, or Orniter. ("Carol" and "Flaming" do come up, though! Like once each!) So I'd be happy to move Zidane to just Zidane (Final Fantasy), too. Anyway, I would recommend that it's better to look farther afield at how literature, film, etc. handle such cases where there's one prominent name, and a longer name is provided in background material or side material or just very rarely in the main work; note for another example we use Neytiri not any of her two possible full names, say. (Granted, a lot of fiction does end up using full names, but these are often fiction set in a more modern English / American setting where only going by one name is weird; so fantasy examples are often more relevant.) SnowFire (talk) 05:29, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's a valid argument, though I'd argue that the examples used are different; Krusha is a nickname, while Sailor Moon and Darth Vader are identities used to mask their true identities. I think that the project generally prefers to use the surname if possible. I think, as far as FF9 is concerned, Garnet is the only one who is just her first name, which makes sense since it's very cumbersome. Otherwise, we have Vivi Ornitier, Zidane Tribal, and Freya Crescent. The same is true for the FF6, FF7, and FF8 character articles. Also, in a Google search, while Quen is definitely not the most common, it is not absent; 25,000 results doesn't suggest to me that it's that rare. I also checked reliable sources, and I found around 700 sources that mentioned their surname. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)