Talk:R. H. Quaytman

Untitled

notabl;e pre rome prize and whitney biennial Pohick2 (talk) 11:49, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Notable?

this person seems not notable. i recommend for deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.244.91.254 (talk) 21:02, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

July 2015 Edits

An editor claiming to be the subject's 20 year old son Isaac deleted content with many proper sources including the NY Times, Huffington Post, a Nevada state database, and two long standing WP articles. This content included Isaac's personal history, which he had made public through interviews and a well publicized public art project. The same day that deletion was reverted, an anonymous editor chipped away at the same content. The deletions remove Quaytman's given, legal first name, marriage to a famous husband, and public history of the adult son. If there are valid reasons to delete this content, please discuss them here before deleting it unilaterally. So far, the reasons have been lacking, citing non-existent policies. The New York Times itself has addressed the issue of whether to mention Isaac's past. In a March 2015 article, the article states "Her son, Isaac, was born a girl, and began gender transitioning while still in junior high school. (Isaac has done interviews about this for New York magazine, Frontline and a public art project called “We Are the Youth.”)" Nixie9✉ 13:22, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• I did not remove her marriage. I moved it to a different section ("Personal life").
• The child's birth name is *not* included in the Huffington Post story listed as the source and is a violation of that person's privacy.
• Again, Isaac has not used his birth name in any of those stories he has recently been in.
• I am not Isaac nor have I ever met him.
• This Wikipedia article is about R. H. Quaytman, not her child. Simply mentioning she has a child is enough. (Please read the "Personal life" section as it is now.)
• I did not remove R. H. Quaytman's legal first name (as far as I am aware).
• My other thoughts about this are here. 12.180.133.18 (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• • Apologies if I did not see the marriage move, among the many deletions. The art project used his before and after names, and the 2002 NY Times article does indeed cite the name Iris. Is that your main goal, to delete Isaac's birth name, or his transformation entirely? These are people who chose to use the media for publicity. The record is there, but I do not have personal opinion on the subject. Seems to me the facts should remain. Nixie9✉ 16:08, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Which art project uses the birth name?

Also, the sources (for Isaac) currently listed in your version are as follows:

• 1. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/08/garden/house-proud-built-just-as-the-sculptor-dreamed-it.html
  2. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diana-scholl/lgbt-youth_b_1465904.html
  3. Jeff Preiss Wikipedia article this is not a legitimate source
  4. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Isaac_Preiss?action=comments this is not a legitimate source
  5. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diana-scholl/lgbt-youth_b_1465904.html
  6. https://www.facebook.com/events/224934983172/ this is not a legitimate source

Her child's birth name should be removed… and also all the other things I changed are improvements to the overall article and do not take away anything about Quaytman's art or life. (This stuff about her child is not relevant to the Wikipedia article. The way I trimmed it is good: mentions she married Jeff Preiss and has a child. Simple.)

I would like to revert to my version. 12.180.133.18 (talk) 16:37, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• • The birth name (which I am not repeating out of respect for your argument) is in the 2002 NY Times article. Not sure why you say Wikipedia articles and Huffington Post are not legitimate sources -- of course they are. Regardless, I have now read WP:Gender Identity, which does shed some light on referring to one's former name, deferring to one's self selection. So I'm accepting your argument re mentioning the birth name, but not on the transformation publicity. The NY Times agrees on this notability judgement, per its repetition in the 2015 article, and WP editors have agreed for 2 years. So, if you would like to remove his original name per the Gender Identity guideline, and leave the other well sourced content, I do not object. Is that a fair compromise? Nixie9✉ 17:55, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• By "the other well sourced content," do you mean the transgender stuff? That is really irrelevant to R. H. Quaytman's article.
  • Along with me and BYK, the editors of the New York Times disagree with you. They discuss Isaac in detail in their article about RHQ and her mother. The citations you object to are not relevant to supporting the content we are discussing. I propose to delete his former name and leave the rest.Nixie9✉ 19:54, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
• Wikipedia articles are absolutely not acceptable as sources for other Wikipedia articles.
• This link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Isaac_Preiss?action=comments that you have as a source is *a link to a comment.* It is absolutely not a reliable source. 12.180.133.18 (talk) 18:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

This Wikipedia article is not about R. H. Quaytman's child. 12.180.133.18 (talk) 21:36, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Specious argument. The article is also not about Soho, Yale, PS1, Bard College, the von Schlegells, Guilford CT, Dan Graham, the Rome Prize or dozens of other aspects which are mentioned in various levels of detail. I have removed the prior name, and the Preiss WP page reference as you suggested.Nixie9✉ 01:53, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Anonymous editor, you unilaterally deleted the material we were discussing, which even the NY Times found relevant. I made an edit where we had agreed. I accepted a part of your argument. Now perhaps you could find another editor or admin to agree with you. You have what a court calls "unclean hands", and I suggest you refrain from further edits, or risk discipline. Nixie9✉ 12:34, 15 July 2015 (UTC)