Talk:Rabin Pre-Military Academy

Program, not "course," "academy," or "college"

Numerous instances in the Haaretz English edition articles cited in Further reading include the translation of mechinah as a "pre-army preparatory course [sic; italics mine]. This last word is more correctly termed a program, being a ten-month (academic year) residential program of studies and work, including many trimester-length courses taught by staff and guest lecturers on a range of subjects. Later articles used the terms "academy" and the BBC news on March 19 used the term "military college" and "cadets," all equally inappropriate translations in relation to the Hebrew-language source.-- Deborahjay (talk) 11:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

We have to remember that the BBC is a news channel and has to report within a semantic context suitable for its target audience within an allocated time slots of about 3 minutes. The fact is we do not have similar programs in the UK and the words "military college" and "cadets" were probably used as a semantic shortcut, to get as much of the story over without having to explain too much in the way of background information. Wikipedia is not a news program and we are not limited by time so if you produce appropriate translations and provide accurate contexts I amongst others would welcome and thank you for it.KTo288 (talk) 09:53, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

It was evident from the initial publication of the graduates' discussion that assorted (and inaccurate) terms describing "Mechinah" were being published by the translators and editors of the English-language media in Israel and abroad, and by your citation, in the broadcast media as well. My point in listing these terms here at the time I created the page was to indicate what's correct according to the Hebrew source (not the media, but the institution's own name), as a resource for the benefit of those unfamiliar with the Hebrew text available on the Web. -- Deborahjay (talk) 18:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Ext. links to articles deleted in interim edits

All of the articles from the electronic media that had been listed under Further reading in the first version of the page were deleted as alleged "linkspam." I've asked that editor to clarify the deletion according to WP editing guidelines, and meanwhile am making them available here (besides two that were subsequently restored to the mainspace page by another editor):

• Haaretz reveals Cast Lead soldiers' testimony
• "Stories you'd rather not hear" - Amos Harel, Haaretz
• "Soldiers' accounts of Gaza killings raise furor in Israel" - International Herald Tribune

The original intent was to provide media sources of content pertaining to the Mechinat Rabin graduates' involvement, their credibility, etc.-- Deborahjay (talk) 11:41, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

When editing WP, we have to think about the long-term future of the article. If you must link to other news articles, I suggest you add part of this information into the body of the article and reference to that. As it is, extensive weight has been given to this one subject in the article and it has virtually nothing to do with the school. Claim to fame is the actions of two students? Please read WP:ONEEVENT. On top of that, a wikinews article has been created. Your further reading should be moved to there. It otherwise reduces the quality of the article. --Shuki (talk) 19:01, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The forward article says "They had — or appeared to have — a trump card. A day after the story first broke, the army announced that" it never says that the soldiers recanted (btw, who knows who they are?). Any case, this is not wikinews and the topic of the article is not Operation Cast Lead. Mashkin (talk) 00:05, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Military investigations

I believe that more information about the official military investigation should be added into the article. --Ynhockey ^(Talk) 00:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Name

I think that per WP:ENGLISH, the article should be given an English name. Ynet and The Independent, to follow a quick Google search, translate it as "Rabin Pre-Military Academy", while [Rabin pre-military preparatory course Haaretz calls it "Rabin pre-military preparatory course". Any thoughts? -- Nudve (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that a dabbed Rabin (pre-military academy) would be proper then. Other mechinas would not need the dab obviously. --Shuki (talk) 06:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Another idea though I think it is inferior - The IDF spokesman site uses the term - Rabin Military Preparation Center. --Shuki (talk) 22:50, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Support Rabin pre-military academy or Rabin Pre-Military Academy. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 23:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

• Strongly oppose. Who came up with "Academy"? (And did any of you read the first comment on this page, above?) You're touting Google hits of media material vs. a Israel-based professional Hebrew-English translator working directly with the program's website in Hebrew and in contact with the director and his staff. Mechina has its own page and this is one particular Mechina. It is not called "Rabin". As Mechinat Rabin (as it's called in brief in Hebrew; the full name is as written in the initial version of the page) has at present no official publication, Web or otherwise, in English, I will contact their English-language publicist for its name in English as used in, for example, grant proposals. -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose per Deborahjay. Factsontheground (talk) 03:30, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Zamir and CO

This [1]is an editorial, not news article and cannot serve as a source. Find the chapter in Refusniks and say what is written there. In any case, the term CO is not appropriate and the Mechina is very much against COs. Mashkin (talk) 18:38, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Author's opinion

(copied from User talk:Igorp lj#Rabin Pre-Military Academy)

In Rabin Pre-Military Academy#References, I'm removing your remark embedded in the citation of a Jerusalem Post article of March 19, 2009:

That was what Zamir wrote in 1990, reprinted in 2004. The testimonies of the soldiers that he brought to the public's attention seem to corroborate - what a coincidence - his thesis.

This sort of personal commentary doesn't belong on the mainspace page. You might consider adding it to the article's Talk page; I leave that to you. -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:48, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the notification. I do think that article author's opinion should be in the article, and there is no place here for your "This sort of personal commentary", but let's continue at the article's Talk page. --Igorp_lj (talk) 13:20, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Rabin Pre-Military Academy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090322165012/http://rabinm.oranim.ac.il:80/ to http://rabinm.oranim.ac.il/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:53, 9 March 2016 (UTC)