Talk:Raiden Shogun

Translation

There are still some information missing in the translated page. I have no idea what 御建鳴神主尊大御所大人像 is in English. The PASH source is not available to the public, so I had a hard time figuring out what 角色的技能設計以故事中角色「凝結眾生之願」為基礎，將「願望」轉化為「願力」概念，並和遊戲的元素充能機制結合 means and ignored that sentence. --PetraMagna (talk) 14:53, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@PetraMagna: The English translation of "御建鳴神主尊大御所大人像" is "Statue of Her Excellency, the Almighty Narukami Ogosho, God of Thunder" ([1]) BlackShadowG (talk) 13:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, though I'm afraid I won't be incorporating the translation into the article because

1. There's WP:FANCRUFT concerns with obscure names.
2. I was already burnt out from all the translating, and participating in an AfD doesn't help with that.

Perhaps this discussion can help someone in the future, though. PetraMagna (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Suggesting to move from Raiden Shogun to Raiden (Genshin Impact)

Normally I'd avoid disambigs, but part of the problem with this article is there is technically *two* Raidens involved here at once: Shogun, and El. And they can't be separated. So what I'm proposing is to move it to the more neutral name, and mention the duality in the lead.-- Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

The new name is more precise, but would violate "use commonly recognizable names" on WP:TITLE as almost all sources refer to her as Raiden Shogun. Although greater precision would be nice, I don't think the current article title misleads readers into thinking we are only talking about the puppet, not Raiden Ei. PetraMagna (talk) 02:19, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

It actually caused some confusion during the afd, as some of the folks commenting didn't understand it was about the same character (and a lot of the reception covers Ei as much as the puppet).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:28, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I believe some confusion surrounding the afd was about the character being called Baal, so changing the title to Raiden would not help with this particular confusion. To me, Raiden is more inclusive than Raiden Shogun, but neither perfectly covers the broad range of titles the game and the media use to refer to her. In my opinion, Raiden Shogun being the overwhelmingly more popular name outweighs the slight benefit of having a more inclusive name. PetraMagna (talk) 22:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Raiden Shogun/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Bluecrystal004 (talk · contribs) 01:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

I can take a look at this one during the holidays! Ping me here or on Discord after 7 days if I haven't posted a review. ~Bluecrystal004 ^{(talk · contribs)} 01:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Stability -

• Reviewed this version

Copyright/images -

• Earwig
• The infobox image rationale still talks about the game's cover art, instead of the character art
• Raiden Shogun Cooking Meme.png
  • Non-replaceable: the rationale doesn't actually justify why this isn't replaceable with an image of the same encyclopedic value
  • Minimal use: makes mention of MiHoYo, but not the copyright holder listed in the rationale template, which is Kitchen Nightmares

Infobox -

Lead -

• ...of the game's Inazuma setting. - maybe "region" is a clearer word
• ...they originally act as... -> ...she originally acts as... because she's the subject of this sentence (She consists of...)

• She has also been discussed in regards to some of the better and worst aspects of the game's story - I don't actually know at all what this is intended to mean
• ...though with some criticisms of its own... - at least remove "of its own" which doesn't make sense, possibly something like ...but there has been criticism aimed at...

Conception and creation -

• ...both were built around the game's "Electro" element... - what is "both"?

• ...bluish purple hair that forms a long hair down her back... - should be rephrased from "forms a long hair"
• ...she portrayed the "Shogun" aspect "cold and unemotional, but not emotionless" and "not a robot". - add "as" between "aspect" and the quotes

Appearances -

• The actual "Baal" is revealed to be Raiden Shogun... - not the actual Baal, but the fake Baal
• ...after attempting to chooses to adopt... - grammatical error, probably removing "to chooses" is best
• ...decides to repeal her policies, adoption a more forward-thinking governance... - adoption -> adopting

• ...obtained by inviting to a card duel... - inviting her
• "make her sound like a Queen from nowhere in particular." - prefer paraphrasing this quote

Promotion and reception -

• ...a polearm called "Engulfing Lightning," to acquire. - the "to acquire" is ungrammatical, I assume it means players could explore her story and get her weapon; maybe along with allowing players to obtain...

• Might be good to mention when she was released as a playable character
• ...comments followed regarding her animations, in particular her sword draw animation where the blade is manifested from her exposed cleavage, with mixed reactions. - I would suggest moving the "with mixed reactions" up to replace the start, something like After her reveal trailer, mixed reactions followed regarding her animations, ...
• ...her inability to cook, resulting resulted in... - rm doubled word

• "one of the most realistic portrayals of grief that I have seen in years." - prefer paraphrasing of this quote

• The paper Preliminary study into the Genshin impact's aesthetics... - paper title should be in quotes not italics
• ...suggested that large breasts "sensual figure" were designed to play a large part of her appeal... - kind of doesn't make sense, maybe removing either "large breasts" or "sensual figure" will make more sense?
• ...within that country... - redundant, remove

• In September 2021, a week after Raiden Shogun was released, - was it in the whole month, or a week after her release?
• ...far exceeding the monthly revenue in August. - the game's total monthly revenue?
• In March, 2022, the Shogun's banner saw a rerun... - does "the Shogun" refer to Raiden Shogun? It seems an unusual phrasing but not wrong I guess

References -

• Keep in mind I'm using machine translations for some of the sources in Chinese which might complicate things

Spotcheck part 1, this version of the article

• 1a - Go with something secondary (not an interview) to establish who the VA is, I found this source

•  Done

• 4a -
• 2c - the source isn't English so quoting the word "nostalgic" isn't appropriate, I think

•  Done

• 6b - do you have a scan of this issue (looks like it originally was on zhwiki)? There's a lot of info sourced to it
• 10 - it mentions that she has this Chakra Desiderata but seems like synthesis/OR to say that this reflects design elements from the god Raijin

•  Done

• 3b - move this up to ...Park Ji-yoon in Korean. which is the only relevant fact it mentions

•  Done

Spotcheck, part 2 this version of the article

• 14a -
• 18 - I'm not seeing any of the previous section supported by this article. I suppose citing the game itself is fine
• 19 -
• 25 - also doesn't seem to support the sentence at all, but the other source does
• 29 - fine at its core but I think "took particular delight in" and "significant" are sort of laying it on thick
• 5c - the quote should be "absolute leader", not "absolute ruler"
• 39b -

@Kung Fu Man: My initial thoughts are here; I'll do a source spotcheck within the next couple days. ~Bluecrystal004 ^{(talk · contribs)} 20:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Bluecrystal004: Addressed what I could. I'm hoping the image rationale is satisfactory now to boot.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kung Fu Man: Sorry for the wait, wow! Spotcheck parts 1 and 2 are posted, still let me know about that pash article otherwise I guess I can just assume good faith on the zhwiki editor who cited it. Everything else from the review was addressed, I think. ~Bluecrystal004 ^{(talk · contribs)} 02:00, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@Bluecrystal004: I should have everything fixed. The Pash article I don't have, but there's a translation of it here in this reddit thread, pages 6 and 7. Lemme know how everything looks!--Kung Fu Man (talk) 07:17, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kung Fu Man I made some fixes and I removed a line which I couldn't find reference to in the Pash source, feel free to modify if I got anything wrong. Should be fine to pass this now, thanks for your work on this article! ~Bluecrystal004 ^{(talk · contribs)} 08:08, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Chinese Sources Check

If you have any need, I can help check the Chinese (and perhaps some Japanese) language sources. MilkyDefer 05:47, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2024

"Standing 5 ft 5 in (166 cm) tall" should be removed or at least modified to match her in game model's height, which is 176.454 cm (with heels) and if it's without she's 169.547 cm. Granted her height without heels is merely my approximate because I don't know of a completely objective way to measure it unlike the measurement with heels. Since Wikipedia isn't allowing me to attach my images, here's an Imgur link instead https://imgur.com/a/HKinAde Phenograph (talk) 01:54, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

We're using information from a reliable source in this case. What you're suggesting is considered original research.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

The source says that its height data are based on player estimates and are speculative. The Gamer's reliability is also situational in Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources since it belongs to a content farm. I would say this number is debatable and if a more reliable source comes up, we should replace it. Of course, what we have so far is just OR. PetraMagna (talk) 02:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

It cited where estimations were done, and there's no note applied for Shogun's information. Unless you've got a better source than "I put a ruler on this image"...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

The article says most heights are estimates and does not provide a note for any height, so they seem to be datamined/speculative. The fact that heights fluctuate between sources confirm that. I was hoping I can find more information on the official illustration book, but it seems that they have omitted height in the character info. I would go for the status quo until Hoyoverse releases something, which may never happen. PetraMagna (talk) 03:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. No proper tools were used hence the fluctuating numbers. I do know of a Japanese poster that managed to get very close to my datamined measured numbers while still only using the game as a source via careful relative measurement. They even explain in detail how they did it. (https://www.hoyolab.com/article/20956615)

Now if you really want something close to official then the next best thing is using datamined HI3 models of characters like Raiden Mei with canon heights (see page 16 - https://manga.honkaiimpact3.com/book/1016/1) and then compare it with Raiden Ei's datamined model Phenograph (talk) 05:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

See also this Dexerto article, this sports illustrated article, and this one from USA Today, which all put her at 5'5" - 5'6".--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:04, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I mean my source is literally the datamined model, which you guys can also verify yourselves if you wanted to. That being said, maybe we can just delete it, which I also suggested Phenograph (talk) 03:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

There's 4 sources confirming this information, what point would deleting it do?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

It's still not accurate considering they're talking about estimates and not one source is claiming they had access to the models themselves. That being said, 5' 6" is at least acceptable if you really want to keep it. Phenograph (talk) 03:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. As this is clearly not an uncontroversial edit, it should not be made via the "Edit Request" procedure. PianoDan (talk) 18:31, 9 February 2024 (UTC)