Talk:Ramesses IV

Request for comments: Ramses/Rameses/Ramesses

Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt#Ramses/Rameses/Ramesses. –Hajor 18:07, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Hittite (i.e. Akkadian) version of the Year 21 treaty between Ramesses II and Muwatallish of Hatti, gives Ramesses name as Riamashesha. This is as the Hittite officials heard the name. So the elements of the name Ramesses are 'Ria' (i.e. the god Ra), 'mash' (i.e. mose or mes), and 'shesha' (i.e. the hypocoristicon of Ramesses II). So the American spelling variants 'Ramses' or 'Rameses' are not strictly correct and the English Egyptological spelling 'Ramesses' reflects much better the original vocalisation (with the double s), formed by the elements Ra-mes-ses.David Rohl (talk) 14:53, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Hekamaatre Ramesses (IV) or Usermaatre Ramesses (IV)??

This article does not distinguish between the monuments and inscriptions of the two prenomens supposedly used by Ramesses IV. This is a great shame because the assumption that Ramesses IV was first crowned as Usermaatre and then changed his prenomen to Hekamaatre in his second regnal year is not proven. In fact there is clear evidence that the two prenomina represent two distinct kings who have been amalgamated incorrectly in the past decades of Egyptology when the evidence we have today was not available ... not least the fact that regnal dates Year 1 and 2 are attested for both prenomina (i.e. there is no changeover in Year 2 but rather Years 1 and 2 for both kings). Therefore, when inscriptions are quoted in this article, they should contain the prenomen that appears in the text and not simply the artificial label 'IV' which fails to distinguish between Hekamaatre and Usermaatre. For example, it is Usermaatre who was responsible for the Great Papyrus Harris and Hekamaatre who recorded the Great Stela in the Wadi Hammamat.David Rohl (talk) 15:06, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Ramesses IV had a triple (as opposed to the more common double) praenomen: Usermaatre Heqamaatre Setepenamun. I have edited the very start of the page to show the "Usermaatre" part. 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:95C7:89D4:717:5483 (talk) 20:10, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Ramesses - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 04:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)