Talk:Rangers International F.C.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 17 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Consensus appears, for all but the first move, to be in favour, so these have been moved. The two main candidates for the target of the first move appear to be Enugu Rangers and Rangers International Football Club. The debate surrounding which one to move it to concerns WP:CONSISTENCY v.s. WP:COMMONNAME. The suffix "F.C." can be considered sufficient to satisfy consistency with the others, but as has been pointed out, the Rangers aren't referred to as such with the suffix, however, it appears the majority of other participants would are satisfied with the full name with the suffix as it satisfies consistency. Therefore, the first page has been moved to option 2. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

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• Enugu Rangers → ?
• Abia Comets → Abia Comets F.C.
• Abiola Babes → Abiola Babes F.C.
• ACB Lagos → ACB Lagos F.C.
• Jasper United → Jasper United F.C.
• Leventis United → Leventis United F.C.
• NEPA Lagos → NEPA Lagos F.C.
• Racca Rovers → Racca Rovers F.C.
• Yobe Desert Stars → Yobe Desert Stars F.C.
• New Nigerian Bank FC → New Nigerian Bank F.C.
• My People FC → My People F.C.

– The club's full name is Rangers International Football Club, and it's commonly referred to as Enugu Rangers. The title needs to be changed in my opinion per WP:CONSISTENCY, since almost all of the clubs in Nigeria ends with (F.C.), so there is two options. Option 1: Moving the article to Enugu Rangers F.C. per WP:COMMONNAME since it's the common name of the club. Option 2: Moving the article to Rangers International F.C. as the club's official (and unpopular) name. All other clubs I've nominated are for the same purpse, to match other clubs in the country per WP:CONSISTENCY. Ben5218 (talk) 10:35, 17 January 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. –Ammarpad (talk) 08:55, 29 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

• Move to Rangers International F.C. and move all the others as suggested. Football clubs are almost always named according to their formal name on Wikipedia and these moves would ensure consistency in this topic area; as long as we have redirects from Enugu Rangers and other variants, it should be fine. Having it at some variant of Enugu Rangers would be equivalent to renaming Celtic and Rangers to have Glasgow in their names; see also Sporting CP/Sporting Lisbon, AFC Ajax/Ajax Amsterdam etc. Number 57 13:06, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom. It is about time we got rid of the periods in "F.C." but that's an issue for another day. For now these should be brought into line with other Nigerian clubs.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:57, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose Enugu Rangers F.C. isn't a thing, and Rangers International F.C. isn't the WP:COMMONNAME (though the club seems to be trying to use it more on official media circles.) The difference between Enugu Rangers and the clubs above is this club is known only by its nickname in sources going back to the 1970's. It's like if "Glasgow Celtic" were used for almost every piece of media the team has had in their existence. I don't mind moving the other clubs, that could probably even be done boldly. SportingFlyer T·C 20:56, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, there isn't something called Enugu Rangers F.C.. I added it only as an option because the club is referred to as Enugu Rangers. That's why I proposed another option; which is the club's full (and official) name: Rangers International F.C.. Ben5218 (talk) 09:56, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I know. I disagree with both options, but I would be okay with Rangers International F.C. if consensus were to form around that — but Enugu Rangers F.C. should not be considered as an option just for the sake of adding F.C. to everything. SportingFlyer T·C 22:46, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Note: I also did research which doubled the size of the article a couple months ago and do not remember seeing them called Rangers International once in media reports spanning decades. SportingFlyer T·C 22:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

The fact that Rangers International isn't the common name isn't really relevant, as the convention for naming football club articles is to use the proper name, hence the examples of Sporting CP and AFC Ajax that I quoted above. Number 57 11:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Are we even sure Rangers International F.C. is the actual proper name? It's sourced to Soccerway, which claims the team name is "Enugu Rangers International FC." Facebook says it's "Rangers International FC Enugu." SportingFlyer T·C 23:04, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes. See their Twitter or their registration on the CAF website. Number 57 11:30, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I still don't think this is a great idea. Per WP:CRITERIA, consistency is only one of the guidelines. Given "Enugu Rangers" is more concise and avoids confusion with Rangers F.C., it's more neutral, precise, and recognizable. SportingFlyer T·C 18:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

There's no excuse for having a single article out of kilter with the rest of a set. No-one is going to think that "Rangers International" is Rangers F.C., who are only known as either Rangers or Glasgow Rangers. Number 57 20:37, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

The "excuse" is WP:COMMONNAME. There's no official guideline for using WP:OFFICIAL for football clubs, either, and it's not universal: see Cruz Azul. SportingFlyer T·C 22:51, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

As long as Engugu Rangers redirects to Rangers International F.C., there are zero issues with recognisability. There are a tiny number of football club articles at inconsistent titles out of many thousands of articles in total – the number is not significant enough to be a precedent to keep/move others at inconsistent titles. Number 57 13:03, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 10:22, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

• Support all per N57, including move of 'Enugu Rangers' to 'Rangers International F.C.' - the standard naming conventions for Nigerian teams is to use 'F.C.' and they should all be brought in line with that. We also use proper names. 'Enugu Rangers' is like 'Glasgow Rangers' or 'Sporting Lisbon', a nickname only and not the official name. COMMONNAME does not/should not apply to football teams. GiantSnowman 10:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

• Comment I think wikipedia did not use official name of the football club. e.g. Liverpool F.C. is the official trading name AND common name (the legal name actually is "Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Limited"). In some case, trading name of the club is one of the official name AND common name, but very different from legal name, e.g. FC Sion is incorporated as Olympique des Alpes, the name used in the document of the Court of Arbitration for Sport. It did have some outlier of using common name but not official name, e.g. Inter Milan which suffered from recurring RM, as well as Red Star Belgrade (the Latin-script of the native name FK Crvena zvezda, is unpopular). However, for Enugu Rangers' case, not enough information to tell Enugu Rangers is a common name or a trading name. The crest of the football club shown Rangers International FC as official name.

With dot or without dot is an ongoing debate for all football articles, but according to WP:CONSISTENCY, since almost all clubs in Category:Football clubs in Nigeria that have F.C. in the current article titles, have dots (except My People FC which already nominated in this RM), so all Nigerian clubs that have the FC/F.C. suffix should have dot in the WP:article titles. Matthew hk (talk) 00:54, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

• @Matthew hk: Thanks for your research. It looks like the official name of the team isn't consistent across the project (Boca Juniors, Bayern Munich, FC Copenhagen, et cetera.) If you look at the sources on the page, the majority of sources use "Enugu Rangers" including ESPN, Goal.com, rsssf.com, guardian.ng, allafrica.com, and ghanaweb.com. SportingFlyer T·C 02:16, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Again, this is a tiny handful out of many thousands of articles – those are not precedent-setting. Number 57 13:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Bayern Munich is the official English trading name as shown in the official site AND it is a common name. The point is, we did not use unpopular official name. We use common name criteria usually which most of the time equal to the official trading name of the club. Matthew hk (talk) 02:55, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

More on my point of common name + official name criteria. For example, Tottenham Hotspur F.C. had common names, Tottenham, Hotspurs, spurs, Everton F.C. had common names Everton and Toffees. We did not ignore the fact that official name should be one of the popular name (commonly recognizable name). In reverse, instead of using ngram, we believed the official trading name is the most recognizable one among all common names of the football club.

For "Rangers International F.C.", yes there is some source that adding affix to tell the location of the club, just like the usage of Sporting Lisbon, Glasgow Rangers and Hong Kong Rangers. But except disambiguation i did not see any purpose to add the place name. Not all Nigerian football club have place name in it, such as Pepsi Football Academy. Unless it have to prove "Rangers International F.C." and "Rangers" is so unpopular for this club, and most of the secondary source use "Enugu Rangers" only, i don't think why not using the article title Rangers International F.C. (sorry, i did not made any google search to prove the usage in order to cast my vote.) Matthew hk (talk) 04:17, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Well, WP:COMMONNAME is based off what secondary sources use, and I've listed a number of WP:RS and quality sources which all use Enugu Rangers. Not every source uses it, but it's definitely the common usage. SportingFlyer T·C 19:58, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 20 October 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It appears this issue has already been addressed, closing. Govvy (talk) 09:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

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Enugu Rangers → Rangers International F.C. – As per previous discussion held between January and February 2019. The article was moved few weeks ago by a user known as Josedimaria237 without giving a reason for the move. Ben5218 (talk) 21:20, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Ben5218: It's a shame this was only caught this now (shows how little editing gets done on African football articles) but you're free to move it back as it went against a recently reached consensus. SportingFlyer T·C 21:43, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
  • I've moved it back and removed the RM tag. Number 57 08:42, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support this is correct name. Given that @Number 57: has already moved the page perhaps they could close this discussion? See a similar incident (and RM) at Yanga S.C.. GiantSnowman 18:16, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
  • I'd effectively closed it by removing the RM tag, which means it is no longer listed as an RM. Number 57 18:27, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
    • But this discussion still needs closing. GiantSnowman 21:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.