Talk:Ray Lynch

Copyvio

The text of this page is almost exactly copied from Ray Lynch's commercial site. We need to restart this article -- there is much to be said about him, but not by copying. —dcclark (talk) 17:03, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Had I looked, I'd have seen the text was added just a few hours before my post. I simply reverted. —dcclark (talk) 17:08, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Birthplace

Earlier versions state both West Texas and Utah. Which is it? I removed both until someone can verify. I also moved the album artist credits to each album page, and asked that someone provide citations for the claims made. Rizzoj 13:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Claims to Billboard awards are not referenced

Per my comments at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:No_Blue_Thing under the section "Neither reference supports the quotes or claims stated in the article", I cannot find any web reference or source other than Ray Lynch's own website for any proof or evidence of receiving Billboard awards. Given the spotty nature of web content for things that happened in 1989, I am in no way asserting that Ray did not win the awards claimed, I just cannot find anything to support the claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.100.21.167 (talk) 22:00, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I removed the references immediately. The Ray Lynch article on Wikipedia is a mess, and I'm trying to clean it up. Yoshiman6464 (talk) 02:37, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

I added back the information; I found the sources from Billboard magazine that confirm that Lynch did, in fact, win these awards. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 14:45, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Interviews

I have found an interview of Ray Lynch on Youtube. I will go through it to see what I could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3VgMbDg6pk

Yoshiman6464 (talk) 02:36, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

• Here is another one from 1998. Yoshiman6464 (talk) 02:09, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Sources from Google Books

Ray Lynch's music is not popular in the modern age. However, his music sold well in the 1980s and was featured in multiple times in Google Books. Here are the sources that I'll use in the future:

• https://books.google.com/books?id=nekDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA102&dq=%22Deep%20Breakfast%22%20%2B%20%22Ray%20Lynch%22&pg=PA102#v=onepage&q=%22Deep%20Breakfast%22%20+%20%22Ray%20Lynch%22&f=false [Deep Breakfast album; Yoga Journal].

• https://books.google.com/books?id=ZOsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA70&dq=%22Deep%20Breakfast%22%20%2B%20%22Ray%20Lynch%22&pg=PA70#v=onepage&q=%22Deep%20Breakfast%22%20+%20%22Ray%20Lynch%22&f=false [Deep Breakfast album; Yoga Journal 2].

• https://books.google.com/books?id=W0GasoU5dfAC&lpg=PR2&dq=%22Deep%20Breakfast%22%20%2B%20%22Ray%20Lynch%22&pg=PR2#v=onepage&q=%22Deep%20Breakfast%22%20+%20%22Ray%20Lynch%22&f=false [For the quotation of spiritual leader Adi Da].

• https://books.google.com/books?id=f7lK0y6nxGIC&q=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&dq=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix0uXiq8fOAhXoL8AKHd_8CuI4MhDoAQggMAE [Mindmapping (1991)]

• https://books.google.com/books?id=nO_iAAAAMAAJ&q=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&dq=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJ2c-GrMfOAhULL8AKHUGhAGE4RhDoAQggMAE [Small Press (1986)]

• https://books.google.com/books?id=Hh9juSr4ncYC&q=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&dq=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwkaCdrMfOAhUJBcAKHU_nDhkQ6AEIHjAA [Healing Music (1987)]

• https://books.google.com/books?id=Nh6__flXuxYC&q=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&dq=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwkaCdrMfOAhUJBcAKHU_nDhkQ6AEIKDAC [Mentioned in Martin Caidin's Exit Earth].

• https://books.google.com/books?id=7iw9AQAAIAAJ&q=%22The+new+album+is+really+all+about+that+%5Bacoustic/electronic+mix%5D+on+all+kinds+of+levels,%22&dq=%22The+new+album+is+really+all+about+that+%5Bacoustic/electronic+mix%5D+on+all+kinds+of+levels,%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW1Iq7rcfOAhVlCMAKHRU3DbgQ6AEIHDAA [This review from Digital Audio; Complete with an interview with Ray Lynch; I'm not sure how to access this book, but it exists.]

• https://books.google.com/books?id=UOIQAQAAIAAJ&q=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&dq=%22Deep+Breakfast%22+%2B+%22Ray+Lynch%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4s8uVrsfOAhXmL8AKHZJhCPE4KBDoAQg7MAg [Foreword from Lynch in Adi Da Samraj's book].

• https://web.archive.org/web/20120211165542/http://adventuresinmusic.biz/Archives/Interviews/raylynch.htm

Yoshiman6464 (talk) 02:04, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Sources from "American Radio History"

The website "American Radio History" has documented multiple resources (such as magazines and newspapers). The website has many resources regarding the artist Ray Lynch.

https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2#q=%22ray+lynch%22+site:americanradiohistory.com Yoshiman6464 (talk) 19:25, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

• http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Billboard/90s/1992/Billboard-1992-07-18.pdf [Page 45 - Story of Ray Lynch being broke in 1991].
  • http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Music/Archive-Billboard-IDX/IDX/90s/1991/BB-1991-07-06-OCR-Page-0110.pdf [Source of Story].

• http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Billboard/90s/1992/Billboard-1992-09-12.pdf [Page 50 - "Windham Hill Reissuing Lynch Catalog"]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ray Lynch/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 15:23, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:23, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

I'll copyedit as I go; revert if I make a mess of anything.

• Why do we have three cites in the lead for his date of birth, but only one in the body? If one is good enough, let's stick with that. And in fact no cites are really needed in the lead; not an issue for GA but the lead doesn't have to be cited except for controversial points and direct quotes.
• while continuing to practice with music: this is an odd phrase. Do you mean he continued to study music and/or continued to play, but didn't perform? If so I don't think you need to include the point at all -- it's not important that he practiced while not performing.
• At age 6, Lynch began studying the piano until age 12, where he was inspired: clumsy phrasing; how about "Lynch began studying piano when he was 6 years old. At age 12, he was inspired"?
• Two consecutive sentences start with "Afterwards".
• Why is it worth picking out one concert on February 4, 1969, to mention in the article? Surely he played hundreds of concerts; what's special about this one?
• Lynch said that he returned to music after studying with his spiritual teacher Adi Da, who suggested that Lynch return to music: repetitive; suggest you make this just "Lynch said that his return to music was prompted by a suggestion from his spiritual teacher, Adi Da".
• Why do we care that he borrowed money to buy the Odyssey? And why is it mentioned at all? Is the instrument important to his compositions in some way?

Generally the prose is the problem here. Standards for GA prose are lower than for FA, but this doesn't meet the "clear and concise" standard; there are irrelevancies, and there's no sense of narrative about the prose. A copyedit by a good writer might help; I'm doubtful this can be easily fixed, but I'll place the nomination on hold and check back in a week, or earlier if you leave a note here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:59, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: I fixed many of the problems that you have listed.

• I removed the excessive citations in the lead; I chose the citation from "AllMusic" since it gives Lynch's exact DOB (while the other sources simply list Lynch's age).
• Fixed the clumsy phrasing.
• Removed excessive "Afterwards".
• I removed the sentence that talks about the specific 1969 concert.
• Fixed clumsy sentence.
• In regards to your last point, "Why is [the Odyssey] mentioned at all", I added some more details regarding Lynch's purchase of the synthesizer. I wrote down "which helped Lynch to create more electronic-based music".

Other changes that I have made to the article (that you didn't specific address) includes the following:

• Removed mention of Lynch's university in the Lead
• Removed a sentence that may seem like an advertisement or review of Lynch's music, which would violate WP:NPOV.

I have the offline sources for Ray Lynch from my University Library, such as articles from Keyboard Magazine, Electronic Musician, and CD Review. If you need a copy or image, let me know. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 19:01, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

The article is improved, but it still needs work. I've done some more copyediting of the first few paragraphs. More comments:

• You say "during his hiatus" in the lead, as if we knew about it, but you haven't mentioned that he stopped performing.
• Austin is Central Texas, not West Texas.
• During his time with the band and other groups, he performed for seven years under his full name "Raymond Lynch": not very fluent. Did he start going by Ray Lynch in 1974? If so let's make this 'He performed as "Raymond Lynch" until 1974, after which he shortened his professional name to "Ray Lynch".'
• We can be more precise about the dates he was in Taxco; if it's reported in 1969 it has to be late 1960s.
• "Afterwards" is not a very good linking preposition; it tends to read like proseline. Do we know the approximate date he moved to Maine?
• We talk about the fact that he returned to music but we don't say exactly when he returned to it. Is the purchase of the Odyssey part of his return?
• out of their small apartment: "their" implies there's someone else in the apartment (his wife? partner?) but we haven't said so. Either make this "his small apartment" or add the information about his marriage, or whatever it might be.
• Do we really need to mention that he gets fan mail? Every artist gets fan mail. Is it particularly relevant to his music that terminally ill people write to him? I would have thought that there are terminally ill fans of every well-known musicians.
• Can we say when he began working with Music West? It looks like the relationship began with Deep Breakfast, so it would have to have been between 1984 and 1986.
• The sequence of events with the lawsuit isn't quite clear. He's with Music West in 1989 when No Blue Thing is released. He sues them in 1991. Do we know exactly when he leaves them? Then you say Lynch later left the company and retained the rights of his music on his independent label, Ray Lynch Productions, with his wife Kathleen serving as manager but apparently never released anything under this arrangement, so it's not clear why we mention it; his next album is from Windham Hill in 1993, but he's with them by September 1992 when they re-release his earlier albums. I think it's just the middle bit that's confusing. If the only point is that he retained rights, let's make it more concise: "Lynch sued Music West for allegedly not paying him for his work; he left Music West, taking the rights to his music with him, and signed with Windham Hill Records." Or am I missing something?
• After he leaves Windham Hill he "released his music under his own record company", but the discography doesn't list anything after the "Best of" compilation, so what does this refer to?
• The personal life and awards sections are too short to be worth a separate section. I'd roll the awards information in with the "Career" section, and put the sibling information in the "Early life" section. I'd put his marriage there unless you can find a date for it, in which case you can decide whether to put it in "Early life" or "Career".

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:38, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie:Once again, I addressed many of your comments.

• I expanded on the Lead paragraph, which justifies the phrase "During his hiatus"
• Removed Lynch's use of his full name, "Raymond Lynch", outside of the Lead paragraph.
• Added a precise date in Taxco.
• Changed "Afterwards" to "During his career", since Lynch moved to Maine while he was a lutenist; Lynch experienced a spiritual crisis "By 1974".
• Added more information regarding Lynch's Odyssey with the starting sentence, "To prepare for his return to music." I also added the reason why Lynch impact of buying the synthesizer: "[It] helped him create music in the developing electronic genre."
• "Out of their small apartment" --> "Out of his small apartment"; Lynch's wife is still mentioned in the "Personal Life" section, but she is not the complete focus of the article.
• Removed the entire section dedicated to Lynch's fan mail.
• Added a precise date for Lynch's involvement with Music West.
• Removed the confusing statement regarding Lynch's music in "Ray Lynch Productions" as well as his wife serving as a manager, since Lynch would eventually join "Windham Hill".
• Clarified the last statement of the "Career" statement; Lynch did not release new music. Instead, he re-released his entire catalog on his website after 2000.
• Merged entire "awards" section with the "Career" section; retained "Personal Life" section since it has two things in Lynch's life: Lynch's marriage to Kathleen Lynch (unknown date) and a more recent incident where his house was destroyed (15 years after Lynch's retirement from music).

The only thing that I couldn't really answer is "Austin is Central Texas, not West Texas." From the primary and secondary sources, Lynch was raised in West Texas, but went to high school in Austin Texas. There is no mention on Lynch's own biography (or the information in the secondary sources) where Lynch moved from West Texas to Austin. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 04:18, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Looking better. I've copyedited again. Some notes:

• I changed "live a normal life" to "give up his musical career", since I gather that's the point -- it wasn't what he did that is important here; it's what he stopped doing.
• I see you took out the mention of his using "Raymond Lynch" for the first seven years; any reason why? It seems a perfectly reasonable fact to include. As it stands the sentence which used to say that now says "During his time with the band and other groups, he performed for seven years", which doesn't give any information at all since we already give 1967 and 1974 as the start and end of this phase of his career. I'd either re-add the note about his name, or cut the sentence completely as repetitive.
• The source doesn't say he taught in Taxco in 1969; the source is dated early February and says he recently taught in Taxco. Given publishing schedules it's actually quite unlikely it was in 1969; it could have been any point in the last couple of years. I think this should be either "in the late 1960s" or "in about 1968".
• Looking at the relevant source, isn't it the case that he bought the farm in Maine and continued to perform and travel, so he was only sometimes at the farm? That's a nuance you don't currently convey.
• I agree it's odd about Austin and West Texas. You might put in a footnote at the first mention of Austin saying "In an interview Lynch says he was raised in West Texas, but his high schools, in Austin, were in central Texas", just so the reader knows it's not a mistake.
• You have access dates on some citations that don't have URLs; access dates are only needed for web pages. It causes an error to show up, though you can only see the error if you have a script installed. It's not really critical for GA, but I would suggest you eliminate the access dates in citations that don't have URLs. I see the error on footnotes 3, 6, 11, 14, 24, 39, and 48.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:55, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: Once again, I have addressed your comments. In regards to the use of "Raymond Lynch", I removed it because it wasn't clear when Lynch started using his shortened name, especially during the period of hiatus between 1974 and 1980. I replaced the repetitive phrase "During his time with the band and other groups, he performed for seven years" with "Lynch also performed with other groups, such as 'Festival Winds', as well as collaborative and solo performances" and their respective sources. If there are any more things that I should address in the article, let me know. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 19:13, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

I fixed one inaccuracy in the footnote you added; he didn't say Austin was in central Texas.

The article is at GA level now, so I'm passing it. As far as I can tell this is your first GA; is that right? I hope you don't mind if I say that the article was really not quite ready; if you decide to nominate another article, please have a think about what changed in this article between nomination and promotion, and try to use that to help you fix what you can in the next article before nominating. I think some reviewers might have just failed this, without working on it with you. I don't mean to be too negative -- you did a lot right; you did the research and assembled the information in a neutral way, with sensible organization, and that's more than many can manage. Anyway, congratulations on achieving GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:20, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: Thank you very much! I have worked on this article for a while. Before I started editing the wiki page, this is what the article looked like. And yes, this is my first GA. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 00:45, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Better ref needed

Given this is a Good Article, needs a better ref than #6, which is an interview posted on the Ray Lynch website. David notMD (talk) 15:42, 15 September 2020 (UTC)