Talk:Ray O'Connor/Archive 1

Archive 1

Royal Commission

Only source found is [1] which is grossly insufficient for the claims made, and is likely insufficient for a source in a BLP in the first place. Collect (talk) 16:24, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

crap - reverted - please note the claims were a lot worse than that in other sources which are available on trove and other - also removing other material is over-stepping the mark and tending to create an unbalanced article SatuSuro 03:01, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree entirely with the need to source things like this, but you have to be very careful about relying on google news for Australian info in the 1990s, it is incredibly lacking, as most Australian newspapers either weren't online or have lost or not maintained/archived any web info that they may have had. The scanning of old papers stops in the 1950s (by trove) and only The Age (Melbourne) by google goes into the 1980s. Reverting my edits was uncalled for, especially when I did add two valid refs. The-Pope (talk) 16:09, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Your disagreement is with WP:RS and WP:BLP then. I suggest you ask at the appropriate noticeboards. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:19, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I suggest not, I suspect the pruning of this article is going beyond what is reasonable caution in understanding of BLP - and removing sources and making judgements about a subject in a situation where sources of information are valid have been removed - it belongs here - not at other noticeboards SatuSuro 23:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

What constitutes validity and relevance of course can be quite a subjective and guideline-free domain to play with - specially if the local context of the subject and the general media coverage of the events are taken into consideration SatuSuro 23:38, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

No, I have no disagreement with those policies, my comment was a more generic comment that google news searches are not appropriate for Australians who were primarily active in the 1990s. Google web, not news, searches, to archive sites such as the The Constitutional Centre of Western Australia website or offline newspaper database searches, are your best bet for people from that era. Stating that "only source found" is misleading as you didn't look in the most suitable places. He has thousands of references in Australian newspapers in the 1990s, but they aren't online, and nothing in WP:RS or WP:BLP says that they must be online. I have no problem with you deleting contentious parts of the article if the refs can't be found, (ie I'm not advocating a "stick a {{fact}} tag on it and wait" approach, which is against WP:BLP) but the CCWA link was a minor url change, not a true 404 deadlink, so that was easy to fix up and it did cover the main contentious items. The-Pope (talk) 23:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Very few media sources from that time are actually available on Google News, which I never actually use because it's so incomplete for the topics I edit in (I'm more likely to go to the State Library and look at the papers myself). The West Australian is the major state daily newspaper while The Sunday Times (a Murdoch paper) also publishes here - neither of which are archived anywhere as far as I know since even Factiva (a paying archive site which university students and researchers can access) no longer hosts TWA since Channel Seven bought a controlling share in WAN, and Ray O'Connor himself has given two-page interviews to state newspapers to give his side of the story, where he talks about his time in jail and his views of the court case which sent him there. Orderinchaos 03:02, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ray O'Connor/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Another Western Australian Premier to be convicted and jailed (Brian Burke) has his Wikipedia article linked to the "Australian Criminals" series. Why not O'Connor's?

Last edited at 08:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 03:58, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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