Talk:Red-capped parrot

Kuhl's spurious descriptor

As noted in the article, Kuhl used a juvenile specimen for the first description, Psittacus spurius. I was puzzled by a couple of things, but don't have access to HANZAB and had to dig around. The author's article notes he was in Java at about the time of publication, and I had the notion this may have put the bird in his hand … apparently not. The article's citation for Kuhl notes this specimen was at the Paris museum. There is some discussion, and a ream of synonyms, in G.M. Mathews (Birds of Australia, 1912. p. 388) that states this specimen was 'procured' by Peron (Baudin expedition) and therefore the type location was 'King George Sound' (Albany).

I can add this to the article, without using the more recent authority (HANZAB), though I am still wondering if there is a missing detail about the specific epithet. The article says Kuhl uses spurius to mean illegitimate because the juveniles don't resemble the adults: how did he know that? — cygnis insignis 20:43, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

I can look at HANZAB on Wednesday or Friday. Old describers often don't give a reason for a species name, and it is up to later people to assume what they meant. Sometimes it is obvious and sometimes much less so. Intriguing question....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:02, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Nice one Cas, hope all is well with you :-)

I didn't need to see the page history to recognise one of your rapid and substantial contributions, cheers for giving me a usable article to add a couple of notes to as I am sailing by. Authors revealing their inspiration for the names they print is a rare joy, like the old WA handbook I bought for a couple of dollars and plunder for nuggets of incidental facts. Keep doing what you do, and give this article some more attention when the volume falls into your hands again. — cygnis insignis 13:17, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Ok got the HANZAB stuff today. Can you split the Morcombe ref into cited text and sfn format like I have done with Higgins? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:21, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Djalyup! It's fun and helpful to watch you at work Cas. The Morcombe refs are in that form now, applying it helped in restoring an edit I stuffed up. I had to patch up some other problems I introduced, think most details are in the summary, and will try to tighten up the distribution and habitat. Who the Kuhl was talking to may turn up, perhaps an earlier report or detail with his specimen. I'll drop some notes with historical stuff later this week, see if they can be incorporated, the field notes of F. Lawson Whitlock is one idea. In the mean time, have a look at John T. Cockerell for an outlying record on the species. Cheers, cygnis insignis 16:36, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

notes

• redirects, dabs for names.

yes Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

• italic to indigenous names?

yes Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

• Mathews/Iredale subspecies, notable? Lost citation for probable clinal variation.

yes - if only to highlight what an archsplitter Mathews was... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I am learning he was shooting in the dark, but do it enough and you hit something. cygnis insignis 03:27, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Relict species of a genus more diverse and widespread was an early assumption.

yes Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Could you forward the Serventy text you cited, or remind me where to ask for access to journals. cygnis insignis 19:19, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

the front page is visible online - however, Emu has crossed over from CSIRO to Taylor and Francis and alot of the fulltexts have gone (T&F covers only from 1996 via UNSW and CSIRO is older, but their fulltexts have half-disappeared. I will get it on Wednesday. It is annoying as I used to be able to view fulltexts of all Emu articles....sigh Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:19, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

I had an earful to say about that manoeuvre, a red rag, instead I sublimated my indignation into a solution: The first 21 volumes of Emu are now available at wikisource. This was courtesy of BHL, and while it is viewable there getting the text on a wiki can improve accessibility and reuse. I pulled an article out a while ago, Spotless Crake and Western Ground-Parrot, and happy to take requests.cygnis insignis 18:09, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

as an update, I was run off my feet on Wednesday. things looking slightly better today. Will see if I can duck across later. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:39, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

No urgency, I expect you have already gleaned anything that can be used here. cygnis insignis 03:24, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Check sisterlinks, improve data item.

ummm...sure.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

A gallery exists at Commons, needs work to get it populated.

there are some useable images on flickr, but the better ones will require someone asking the photographers to change their licences... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:23, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Too much heavy lifting for limited access, perhaps you know someone with experience in getting images released. This image in flight is worth a look at least, Groom, G.macaulaylibrary.org displaying the underwing.

Getting the synonyms into wikidata is an idea, but site is under development for taxa.

• Red-capped Parrakeet -by Edward Lear in Illustrations of the Family of Psittacidae, or Parrots 1832, a young Edward Lear.
  • The caption under Lear's image of the female says the live specimen was from the menagerie of Edward Smith-Stanley, 13th Earl of Derby, his "patron" according to article.
• There is sawdust beneath the eggs. There are the chew marks at the entrance of the hollow.

I cited each fact, but guess there is connection. Or it is a hygiene thing. cygnis insignis 22:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• I have tried to emphasise marri a little more, will scout refs for ecology (Tim Low cites HANZAB, 'marri').
• You could still get a permit to shoot this declared pest in the mid 80s, not sure how that has changed so holding fire.
• External links.
  • A popular and usable guide to chewed marri nuts. Not copyright free, but free to copy.

Now a reference. cygnis insignis 18:09, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

• • Distribution data (birdata.org not loading) and sound files from citizen science sites.

• Err, surely this is about the regent parrot? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:51, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

King, Regent, they must be closely related taxa in Parrot :P cygnis insignis 03:15, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Culum Brown, Maria Magat; The evolution of lateralized foot use in parrots: a phylogenetic approach, Behavioral Ecology, Volume 22, Issue 6, 1 November 2011, Pages 1201–1208, https://doi.org/10.1093/beheco/arr114

Extended content

: "Here, the foot preference of 23 species of Australian parrots was examined to investigate the link between laterality and body size. The raw data indicated that the strength of laterality was related to body size and an associated foraging mode. The results of the phylogenetic generalized least squares, however, indicated that both the pattern (left, right, or ambidextrous) and strength of laterality showed a high degree of phylogenetic inertia." — abstract the sample size for this species is 5 (five), but this is what I started to glean "Platycercini and the Loriinae underwent a significant decrease in body size with a corresponding loss of laterality. Extant Platycercini contained a mix of left, right, and ambidextrous species. The 3 largest species in this tribe have reverted to the ancestral lateralized state, 1 [P. spurius] becoming left handed, and 2 becoming right handed." They note this tribe as interesting, because diet (large marri seeds in this case) is correlated with larger size and moderately strong laterality. The examination of phylogenetic history suggests ancestral lateralization of brain function and foot preference, but ecological pressure seemed to correlate with smaller size—and regression of laterality—as grasses became a staple of clades. This stuff blows my mind …

Left-handed, mostly.^citation. — cygnis insignis 18:09, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

• 'A revision of Trichoglossus hematodus and of the Australian Platycercine parrots' Article in Ibis 97(3):432 - 479 · April 2008 

The nearest relative of Purpureicephalus spurius (southwestern Australia), already recognized as a relict species, is suggested to be “Eunymphicus”cornutus of New Caledonia, also a relict, which is made congeneric with it.

An unexpected link to the horned parakeet just before the 2011 genetic study and mulga parrot, or does this goes into the article [[Synonymy of Purpureicephalus spurius]]? How about a virus isolate

• 'Whole-Genome Sequence of a Beak and Feather Disease Virus Isolate from a Fledgling Red-Capped Parrot ( Purpureicephalus spurius )

This is the first evidence of BFDV infectivity and a complete genome sequence for this novel host.

Cool - all added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

• draft-conservation-advice-tuart-woodlands

A draft, as it says, which only indicated that mature tuart could offer nestings sites. Something firmer on other eucalypts as nest sites might turn, Whitlock doesn't id the one he hacked apart, and confirming tuart would be a bonus. cygnis insignis 17:40, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I also took out "precocial" as parrots are certainly not precocial like chickens..and I am wondering whether it is a misprint..e.g. see here..Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Not seeing a problem with it now. As two pairs of comparative terms with a lot of overlap, perhaps there is something more in HANZAB'S citation or a special usage in parrotology. cygnis insignis 17:02, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I added in some more acacias to close off another tab, but I'll flag what happened and admit my sin. One acacia is only mentioned in the table, the others in the text, this is unfortunate because they might have caught an error, "A. restionaceae". I have took this to be a typo for A. restiacea, though leaving it out was my first instinct [too diverse to presume] it is at least in the range. cygnis insignis 17:02, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

• Xylomelum is noted for woody pear, citing Forshaw (not seen). There is a line in Leaf and branch (trees of Perth) on red-caps eating seeds of Xylomelum occidentale, but another woody pear is found in SW Aust so I can't simply substitute the genus for the species. Could be Forshaw is saying both. cygnis insignis 17:04, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Yep - and both occur within its range. And HANZAB sheds no light on this either...sigh....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:57, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Still some things I could add, if the appropriate section appears, but should note that the bird isn't saying anything. A GA needs a bit of song! cygnis insignis 18:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Yeah...but this is often true of non-passerines. Not a huge amount to add. Did ad a bit more. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:57, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

GA

Love this article, this looks like GA already .

Yup - that's what we're working towards....just a couple of bits and pieces....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:20, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

working it cost a huge time, I've seen this and Blue-footed booby almost GA, nice work Casliber.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Red-capped parrot/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 11:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• I guess this is meant for later FAC? We are very close to the 200 bird FA mark, so let's get the ball rolling! Some preliminary comments below. FunkMonk (talk) 11:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• You have some nice captions for most of the images, anything to say about the one in the taxobox? Male, female, location?

it is probably but not definitely a male (sexes similar) in Albany. location added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Nice, capitalise first letter? FunkMonk (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:54, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

• This image[1] seems to show a feeding bird, relevant in the feeding section? Also the only photo that shows its back properly.

this was the taxobox image before - yes, re-added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:09, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• You don't give dates for all revisions under taxonomy.

I added the missing one (are there others?) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Two studies in the third paragraph need dates. FunkMonk (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

dates added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:56, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• "in 1854.[7]The generic" Needs space.

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• Latin and Stirling Range are overlinked.

delinked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• You only give binomial names for some other species mentioned, should be consistent.

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:15, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Mulga parrot missing, as well as hooded and golden-shouldered parrots. FunkMonk (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

oops, added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:46, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• The feeding section, and to a lesser extend the description section, look like walls of text, could each block be broken up into two paragraphs?

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:46, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• "collected in Albany, Western Australia on the Baudin expedition " Mention when this expedition took place?

1801-03 in text after title Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:47, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• Mathews is not presented or linked.

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:58, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Otto Finsch cited Kuhl in calling it Platycercus spurius in 1868" But Kuhl named it Psittacus spurius?

changed to "followed" - he used Kuhl's species name thus recognising Kuhl's name's precedence. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:10, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "—the main reasons" Are the?

yep/done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:10, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Mathews did tentatively describe a subspecies carteri in 1915" Based on what and why?

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "It was not considered distinct by later authors." What does "it" refer to here, previous sentence talks about five birds.

rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• John Gould is not presented.

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "derived from the epithet pileatus of a synonym once used in aviculture" You state earlier that this was coined for a male specimen, seems a bit incongruent.

I reworded it to clarify Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "The name king parrot" Why italics?

words-as-words suggests italics, but this gets confusing with latin names. hence changed to quotes Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:46, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "English naturalist W. B. Alexander" Why is this name alone not spelled out?

spelt out Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "people of southwest region" The?

removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:10, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Red-capped Parrakeet by Edward Lear, 1832" The reader will not know why you use another name here, perhaps state in the caption it is an alternate, if you even need to mention the name at all there.

removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "A larger parrot of southwest Australia" This is an odd way to begin the description section. Why do you need to state the location here, and isn't it better to name the subject at the beginning of the section?

removed the contextual bit which conflicts with another bit anyway Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "and easily recognised medium-sized parrot" So is it "larger" or "medium sized"? What does "larger" even mean?

see above (it means its larger than the western rosella I suspect) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "base of lower mandible" The?

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "though the eye" Through?

fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "especially suited to extract the seed within the hard, woody urn-shaped capsule of marri trees" Does this belong under description?

removed it - was going to add in feeding section but already covered there Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "is a series high-pitched" Of?

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "The population mostly occurs 100 km (60 mi) of the coastline" Not sure what this means?

rejigged slightly - it means most of the population occurs within 60 km of the coast Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "more sparse toward the edge" Sparsely?

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "It also occurs in forests dominated by" The former sentence starts with "this tree species", so might be good to specify you refer to the bird instead of "it".

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:58, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

• "The are commonly" They.

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Shy birds, they often retreat to the upper canopy of trees if disturbed." Perhaps group this extremely short sentence with the preceding paragraph?

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Adult feeding on grevillea seeds" Shouldn't that be written as a genus name?

done - also serves as common name in oz Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "This may be because of historical high proportion of" A historically high proportion? Current wording seems odd.

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:29, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• "It has long been classified in its own genus, though genetic analysis shows that its closest relative is the mulga parrot". Why "though? The article body doesn't indicate this has any bearing on its generic affiliation.

It actually lies within the genus Psephotellus, but as Purpureicephalus is the older name, the others would all have to change. Will tweak this Tweaked it and forgot to update here. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:29, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

This should be the last issue, would be nice to elaborate in the taxonomy section. FunkMonk (talk) 20:48, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

• The intro seems short compared to the article body. There could probably be more on behaviour, and maybe on the juvenile's features.

enlarged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Only seem to be a couple of issues left, then I'm ready to pass. FunkMonk (talk) 14:55, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
• Alright, passed, off to FAC, I guess! FunkMonk (talk) 15:16, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Bad hat

The hatnote is misleading, it implies the user made some kind of mistake, but both parrots are known as red-capped parrot. You should have something like "this is about an Australian parrot. For the South American one see blah". Hat Hater (talk) 19:43, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

ok, fair point. done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:48, 18 October 2018 (UTC)