Talk:Reformed Diocese of Királyhágómellék
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Super Dromaeosaurus in topic Title
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editKIENGIR, one question, what do "egyházkerület" and "Királyhágómellék" mean? I thinking of proposing a new title but I'd like to know the meaning of its Hungarian name first. Super Ψ Dro 12:43, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- Egyházkerület is diocese. "Királyhágómellék" literally cca. Kings-pass-aside. Historically until today Király-hágó (a geographic name) is reffering to the gate (entrance) of Transylvania, in German Königsstein, while in Romanian Pasul Craiului. While especially the church districts Romanian name is Episcopia Reformată de pe lângă Piatra Craiului is following/formed on the German name/wordage of the place. I have no problem if you are standardizing and wish to use diocese instead of church district, but before any proposal, please present your suggestions here, so we may review it. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:19, 10 October 2020 (UTC))
- KIENGIR, thanks for the clarification. It was actually "church district" the first thing I wanted to change, only after I was thinking about a new name I thought about changing Királyhágómellék. Although it seems strange to me that this diocese is located in Banat, Maramureș and Crișana/Partium but has the name of some mountains that are on the opposite side of Transylvania. I would still prefer to change it, although I have no problem if the name remains if there is not any better idea. I propose the same name as before, "Reformed Diocese of Oradea". Oradea is used instead of Királyhágómellék in many websites and sources, such as [1] [2] [3] [4][5] [6] [7] [8]. There is also a category in Commons that refers to the diocese as "Reformed church in Oradea" and even the Romanian Wikipedia page refers to its bishop as "Reformed bishop of Oradea" although the title of the page does not use the city, but the mountains. If you do not agree with the change to Oradea, I propose either "Királyhágómellék Reformed Diocese" or "Reformed Diocese of Királyhágómellék" (which may be grammatically wrong). What do you think? Super Ψ Dro 21:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- It is not strange, because "mellék" means aside, next to, so it is denominating the area before the mountains start (considering it's a relevant point to posit the area, it would have been hard to find a more exact name as you point out also how many regions it could affect by a certain point of view). The sources you listed are suffer from either using informal denominations, or conflating with the earlier Diocese (Roman Catholic Diocese of Oradea Mare) which ceased to exist in 1920 (thus projecting it to the modern city name which also changed then, moreover one would be Catholic, the other reformed...). Hence the interwar Romania the new diocese was founded as it had to adapt to the new borders. Just because it's seat is Oradea, it does not mean it's name is Oradea. Reformed Diocese of Királyhágómellék seems good, as it is following the identical shame per your recent changes. However, in the article's intro the current name has to be mentioned, since it is it's English denomination, reinforced by it's own site, while the Romanian denomination Episcopia Reformată de pe lângă Piatra Craiului cannot be altered also.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:19, 10 October 2020 (UTC))
- Alright then, I've moved it again. Thanks for your help! Super Ψ Dro 11:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- It is not strange, because "mellék" means aside, next to, so it is denominating the area before the mountains start (considering it's a relevant point to posit the area, it would have been hard to find a more exact name as you point out also how many regions it could affect by a certain point of view). The sources you listed are suffer from either using informal denominations, or conflating with the earlier Diocese (Roman Catholic Diocese of Oradea Mare) which ceased to exist in 1920 (thus projecting it to the modern city name which also changed then, moreover one would be Catholic, the other reformed...). Hence the interwar Romania the new diocese was founded as it had to adapt to the new borders. Just because it's seat is Oradea, it does not mean it's name is Oradea. Reformed Diocese of Királyhágómellék seems good, as it is following the identical shame per your recent changes. However, in the article's intro the current name has to be mentioned, since it is it's English denomination, reinforced by it's own site, while the Romanian denomination Episcopia Reformată de pe lângă Piatra Craiului cannot be altered also.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:19, 10 October 2020 (UTC))
- KIENGIR, thanks for the clarification. It was actually "church district" the first thing I wanted to change, only after I was thinking about a new name I thought about changing Királyhágómellék. Although it seems strange to me that this diocese is located in Banat, Maramureș and Crișana/Partium but has the name of some mountains that are on the opposite side of Transylvania. I would still prefer to change it, although I have no problem if the name remains if there is not any better idea. I propose the same name as before, "Reformed Diocese of Oradea". Oradea is used instead of Királyhágómellék in many websites and sources, such as [1] [2] [3] [4][5] [6] [7] [8]. There is also a category in Commons that refers to the diocese as "Reformed church in Oradea" and even the Romanian Wikipedia page refers to its bishop as "Reformed bishop of Oradea" although the title of the page does not use the city, but the mountains. If you do not agree with the change to Oradea, I propose either "Királyhágómellék Reformed Diocese" or "Reformed Diocese of Királyhágómellék" (which may be grammatically wrong). What do you think? Super Ψ Dro 21:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)