Talk:Regnal years of English and British monarchs

Confusing wording

Use of 1 Mary 1 s. 3 is not a very good example and can be confusing to readers. It currently reads: "because it was the first act passed in the third session of the parliament begun in the first year of the reign of Queen Mary". Actually no. It happens to be the third parliamentary session in Mary's first year, but it is actually the first session of the second parliament begun in the first year of Mary (first parliament only had two sessions, s.1 & s.2, second parliament had one - s.3). The way it is currently worded is confusing.

First Parliament of Mary I began October 5, 1553 to December 6, 1553. It had two sessions: the first session (1 Mary 1 sess.1) ran from October 5 and passed only one act (Treason Act) before being formally prorogued on October 21. Second session (1 Mary 1 sess.2) began only a few days later, on October 24, and ran until December 6. Then the first parliament was dissolved, and new writs issued on Feb 20, 1554 for a second parliament to meet in April.

Second parliament of Mary I began April 2, 1554 (still within her first regnal year), and ran for only one session. This first and only session of the second parliament is designated (1 Mary 1 sess.3) and ran from April 2 to May 5, 1554. It was was dissolved May 5.

(To make life complicated, Mary's third parliament happens within 1554, but mercifully already in her second regnal year. Alas, she had married Philip on July 25, so her third parliament (which also only ran through one session, from Nov 12 1554 to Jan 16, 1555) is denoted "1 & 2 Philip & Mary").

In sum, chronologically:

• Beginning of first regnal year of Mary I - July 5, 1553
• 1 Mary 1 sess.1 - first session of Mary's first parliament (Oct 5-Oct 21, 1553)
• 1 Mary 1 sess.2 - second session of Mary's first parliament (Oct 24-Dec 6, 1553)
• 1 Mary 1 sess.3 - first (& only) session of Mary's second parliament (Apr 2- May 5, 1554)
• End of first regnal year, begin second regnal year of Mary I - July 6, 1554
• Beginning of first regnal year of Philip within second regnal year of Mary - July 25, 1554
• 1 & 2 Philip & Mary - first (& only) session of Mary's third parliament (Nov 12, 1554-Jan 16, 1555)

So sess.3 is a third session in her first regnal year, but not a third session of her first parliament. This section has to be reworded carefully. (Personally, I'd advise against using that particular example, since it can be confusing to readers). Walrasiad (talk) 06:39, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

P.S. - I'd also avoid referring to c.1 as "first act passed". It may or may not be. Ordering by which chapters are listed on the rolls is typically the order of royal assent, not when it actually passed the floor. Monarchs frequently delayed assent of an earlier act until a later one was passed - indeed many monarchs often withheld assent of everything until the very last day of the session, then assented all at once, so ordering may not be significant. (Indeed, complicating matters, until 1793, dates of royal assent were not even recorded; unless otherwise specified, all acts were presumed in force from the start date of the session - which often meant retroactively enforceable; it took the 1793 act of (33 George III c.13) to finally instruct clerks to record dates of royal assent, and make the acts come into being from that date). Walrasiad (talk) 06:57, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Abbreviations

may have fallen out of fav(o|ou)r but so has paying attention to any of this. When people need to deal with these, they'll usually be looking at something like a Rot. Vasc. Those invariably use English or Latin abbreviations that aren't always clear and should be listed (e.g. Edu. I. or Edv. I for Edward I). — LlywelynII 13:40, 27 April 2024 (UTC)