Talk:Renault Espace

renault escape f1?

what about renault escape f1?--Tadej petric (talk) 17:55, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

first MPV/minivans

How Euro-arrogant!!! If I am not mistaken the Plymouth/Chrysler/Dodge Minivans were the first MPV/minivans. The Espace just happened to be the first from a European manufacturer. Someone should fix this. I will if no one else does. chris 05:03, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Chrysler MPVs where introduced in 1984 the same year than the Renault Espace. I don't know which one was the first on the market. However the Matra project was seriously differed when Simca (Matra's partner) was sold to Peugeot. Thus I think Matra created the concept. BTW who sold Simca to Peugeot ? Answer : Chrysler. Ericd 20:22, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I think you are both wrong, and I never understand why people (especially magazines/TV) praise the Espace so much. The Mitsubishi Chariot (Space Wagon in Europe) came out in 1983. I'm pretty sure that's an MPV too! --Zilog Jones 01:08, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

No, the Espace was the first monovolumen (there's no word in English I think). Both Caravan and Chariot are based on van vehicles, and do not represent Espace's original shape. Ergo, that's why people praise the Espace so much.--Fluence (talk) 03:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Before Mitsubishi, there was Nissan Prairie (1982) that was very similar in concept and construction. And arguably even that isn't the first car-based minivan, as there are Volkswagen Microbus (1950, 1968 w/ sliding doors) and [Multipla] (1956). Credit to Americans, though, as all things that made Espace famous were pioneered by Stout Scarab. 213.216.248.65 (talk) 23:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Seats

The Renault Espace allowed to add/remove seats or change their layout was it allowed on it's competitors ? Ericd 1 July 2005 19:55 (UTC)

• Ever heard of the Fiat Multipla ? was there in the sixties ...Hektor 20:27, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Except that the first multipla was NOT a MPV... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.132.242.1 (talk) 13:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The real inovation

I believe the chassis design was the real inovation, not how many people it could carry around. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.132.242.1 (talk) 11:16, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

Knuttebasse

The Espace was originally intended to be sold as a Knuttebasse

Can anybody help me with this word?!? What does it mean? Feinmotoriker 12:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

PSA and the Citroën Evasion/Peugeot 806

Hello I think this piece haves nothing to do with the Espace article ??

'PSA decided the Espace was too expensive and too risky a design to put into production, and Matra took their idea to Renault (PSA finally ventured into the minivan sector eleven years later with the Citroën Evasion/Peugeot 806).'

KInd Regard, Stef

--World arm lamp (talk) 10:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Disagreed. First part clearly describes concept stage of Espace and is part of its history, whether it involves Renault or not. The latter part is about developments caused by Espace, and thus relevant. 213.216.248.65 (talk) 23:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

No, you're dead wrong. It's useless trivia, and potentially misleading, because the wording strongly implies that the 806 was somehow related to the Espace or a reaction to it. This seems implausible given the eleven-year gap. In your hands the sentence would have ended with "...the Citroën Evasion/Peugeot 806, which were part of a wave of eurovans that included the Fiat Ulysse and Lanzia Zeta, which were sold in France from 1988-1997 and 1992-1995 respectively before being replaced by etc etc etc". This is terrible writing. The article originally had tonnes of parenthetical trivia like this. It's rubbish, it adds nothing of substance to the article, it has nothing to do with the development of the Espace, it's difficult to read, it's a waste of your time, it reflects badly on you as a writer. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:38, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Wrong photo

Please check photo, Espace I in each.

BR, Yuriy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.73.188.147 (talk) 06:01, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Watch out, a certain vandal (86.161.81.76) has struck repeatedly on this page. 213.216.248.65 (talk) 23:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Validity of the Espace / Discovery collision test

The Top Gear episode mention is problematic. If one views the videos, one notices an important problem: momentum isn't conserved!

The Discovery weighs ~2200 Kg (from http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/motoring/car-specifications/Land+Rover/Discovery+%281998-04%29/LR000526/), while the Espace weighs around 1760 Kg (from http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/motoring/car-specifications/Renault/Espace+%282003-%29/RE004835/).

Momentum should have been conserved, hence the Espace+Discovery should have proceeded to the right at about 5 MPH. If you watch the video, they didn't. This makes me concerned that Top Gear may actually be guilty of the shenanigans that they've been accused of in the past on these vehicle collision tests- of things like removing engines or otherwise "modifying" the vehicles to yield a preordained result.

  Dr. Crash (talk) 18:41, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Quality

Espace IV's finishes and interior design are no doubt unequaled by any of its competitors.

According to my dealer, the 2003-2008 production was far from flawless (clutch, turbo, motor,EGR-valve, dashboard,...). Many owners, including myself can testify. 109.132.219.4 (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Renault Espace production

I changed the production dates. The Espace IV is still produced at the Sandouville factory, now in its fourth phase. I do not know from where came from the idea that Renault stopped its manufacture (see the French wikipedia article and here). Perhaps from the fact that Renault does not sell it anymore in the United Kingdom and some other markets.Urbanoc (talk) 13:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

There's not much of a dispute here, but since you asked for another opinion, I would suggest that the best course of action would be to be bold, find a source for the correct dates, and change the article.Millermk (talk) 06:55, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I did that. We'll wait and see.Urbanoc (talk) 07:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Yulon's Espace version

Seeking different sources I found that Yulon did not produce the Espace IV, but it developed a MPV called Luxgen7, which has a platform (according to Wikipedia, L7) based on the old-generation Espace (the Espace III) (see here, here and here). I would like to change that part of the article, remove "Yulon" from the Espace IV's infobox and add a comment on the Luxgen7 MPV in the section of the Espace III. If no protests, I will do so. Urbanoc (talk) 08:34, 8 August 2012

Espace predecessors

I have serious concerns about this extense part of the lead section:

The van based 1950 Volkswagen Type 2 , also known as the Kombi, and the 1956 car based Fiat 600 Multipla , popularised the

versatile multi-seater concept about 30 years prior to the Espace, and the concept had been tried several times before that, an early example being the 1935 Stout Scarab, and there was the very similar in concept Plymouth Voyager which Lee Iacocca claims was proposed by himself in 1973 when he was working at Ford, although he never got the chance to build it until he went to Chrysler in 1984, the same year the Renault Espace

was launched.

The above text clearly ignores MOS:LEAD, as it doesn't summarise any part of the article. Besides, the MPV concept is pretty vague and all multi-seater vehicle that ever existed can be linked to it. The text also implies Renault is somewhat lying without citing a credible source to prove it. Having this on the lead adds an unnecceasary negative bias.

I think the best solution is to place the text into the Espace I sub-section with a "citation needed" template and rewrite the lead as follows (or something similar):

The Espace is often considered to be the first MPV, but previous vehicles had similar designs .

I'll go ahead and change it. Before reverting me, please tell your reasons in the talk page. Urbanoc (talk) 20:39, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

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geoffrey-matthews

• http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2017/07/rise-fall-geoffrey-matthews-magnificent-tale-extraordinary-man
• https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jul/11/storyville-rise-and-fall-of-geoffrey-matthews-review
• Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 00:54, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

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MPV or Crossover SUV

Urbanoc has messaged me about my edit that removed the mentions of crossover SUV and its reference in this article. For exposure and relevance reasons, I'll answer and explain here.

I'll admit I was a bit lazy, so I did a lengthy research to back my opinion. But before I revert back to my edit while adding sources, I would like to gather these sources I found about Espace being a MPV/minivan or SUV.

The source cited in the article:

• https://web.archive.org/web/20151015092724/http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-technology/renault-s-reinvented-espace-cuv-steals-show-paris
  • The press conference at which CEO Carlos Ghosn revealed Renault’s new Espace CUV drew the largest crowd Thursday at the Paris auto show, trumping the debuts of concept cars from French competitors Peugeot and Citroen. The car is important for the French automaker. The people mover it replaces sold 370,000 units over its long life, but “very few recently,” says Jean-Francois Reynaud, marketing chief for the Espace. – mentioned it as a CUV, which is crossover utility vehicle, while also mentioning people mover which implies its MPV status. No explicit mention that it has an SUV body style.

Espace as a MPV/Minivan:

• https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-renault-strategy-exclusive/exclusive-renault-to-discontinue-espace-model-as-carmaker-cuts-costs-sources-idUKKBN22Q23Z
  • “In short, fewer minivans and sedans and a focus on crossovers and SUVs”, the source added. – implying Espace is a minivan.
• https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/renault-said-drop-minivans-cost-cutting-drive
  • Renault is preparing to ax slow-selling minivans and sedans to focus on SUVs and crossovers, four sources in the industry and close to the automaker said. The Espace and the Scenic minivans,... – explicitly mentioned Espace as a minivan.

Espace as a crossover MPV with no mentions that it is an SUV:

• Official website: https://www.renault.fr/vehicules-particuliers/nouvel-espace.html
  • Travel in "business class" in a crossover-style MPV car.
• https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/renault/20-initiale-paris-5dr-auto/first-drive
  • Which was exactly the intention. Slab-sided, van-like MPVs are now about as fashionable as bumbags, so Renault’s rummaged around in the toybox marked ‘Crossover Styling’.
  • In the flesh, it’s a clever piece of design - pleasingly detailed and easily the most interesting-looking MPV since the original Ford S-Max.
  • Ordinarily in an MPV, handling is low on the priority list, but Renault has gone so extravagantly to town on the new Espace that we’re paying attention.
• https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/espace/91260/new-renault-espace-2015-review
  • it has hinted that the new MPV-come-crossover styling may find its way onto other mainstream models in the not-too-distant future.
• https://www.largus.fr/actualite-automobile/essai-renault-espace-2020-notre-avis-sur-lespace-5-restyle-10359410.html
  • Translated: The Espace, an offbeat machine born minivan but become a big crossover

Espace mentioned as a crossover SUV + MPV:

• https://europe.autonews.com/article/20130605/ANE/130609956/renault-espace-will-be-replaced-with-suv-styled-crossover
  • Renault will replace its Espace large minivan with an SUV-styled crossover – on the side note 'SUV-styled' implies not an SUV.
• https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/paris-motor-show/reinvented-renault-espace-revealed
  • Renault justifies calling the Espace a crossover by saying its new shape combines elements of saloon, SUV and MPV – a crossover of SUV and MPV, which does not necessarily mean crossover SUV nor crossover MPV.
• https://www.automobile-magazine.fr/toute-l-actualite/article/27377-le-renault-espace-restyle-a-partir-de-44-100-eur
  • Translated: Even if it tried to migrate to the world of SUVs, the Espace 5 did not want to deny its genes and therefore found itself halfway between minivans and crossovers.
• https://www.challenges.fr/automobile/essais/renault-espace-un-vrai-salon-ambulant-confortable_646579
  • Translated: A minivan? Ah, no, what a horror, it is an "SUV", see! The diamond firm, which tried to promote its last large minivan under this supposedly more f–lattering Anglo-Saxon name, has failed. – sarcastic mention that Renault tried to market this as an SUV but the shape can't lie.

Espace mentioned as not an SUV:

• https://www.autoplus.fr/renault/espace/nouveau-renault-espace-suv-ou-monospace-193423
  • Translated: is the new Espace a pure SUV? Not so sure since with its 4m86 long, or as much as the current Grand Espace, this new model is capable of fulfilling its role of family minivan by carrying up to 7 people and should offer great roominess.

I struggle to find any sources that says Espace has an SUV body style. Based on these sources, I suggest the Espace article at the very least should not mention the body style as an SUV, while its class might still be a subject of debate whether we could categorize this as a crossover or not, crossover SUV or not. – Andra Febrian (talk) 16:11, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Andra Febrian: My original text described it as a "luxury crossover" matching the sources I used back there (see here when I first added it), but people kept on adding SUV to it. I tried to revert it for a while (see for example here), but I eventually give up, accepting it as a shitty compromise. While it really bothers me, it bothers me more to call it simply an MPV, as the fifth generation was a radical departure design-wise compared with the four previous generations. If we would describe it as a MPV, I'd like to keep that point clear. --Urbanoc (talk) 16:31, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Urbanoc: I'm thinking of a compromise which would make the infobox look like this:

PROPOSED INFOBOX
Overview
Manufacturer	Renault
Production	1984–present
Body and chassis
Class	Large MPV (M) (1984–2014) Large luxury crossover MPV (M) (2015–present)
Body style	5-door MPV

Might be controversial because 'crossover MPV' isn't really a real thing. Better alternative would be simply explaining its fifth generation crossover situation in a prose, while the infobox is clear from any crossover mentions. It's a bit like Renault Triber if you think about it, while it is crossover-styled, it's not explained in the infobox but instead explained in the 'Development' section. – Andra Febrian (talk) 16:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Andra Febrian I would insist on keeping a brief explanation in the article lede (apart from the article body) covering the fact the fifth generation is a crossover instead of a traditional MPV design. As for the infobox, I think you're probably right on just describing it an MPV there. --Urbanoc (talk) 16:52, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

"monocoque spaceframe"

"The design featured a body of fibreglass, mounted on a warm-galvanised steel monocoque spaceframe"

That is a complete contradiction. A monocoque is a monocoque because it doesn't rely on an internal frame. A spaceframe is a spaceframe, not a monocoque structure. The structure the store appears to describe is called a semi-monocoque. The majority of stregth comes from the sheet metal forms with some reinforcement added inside. If the frame is indeed built up of triangle forms, them it's simpley a spaceframe. "Monocoque" isn't a word for "anything not using a traditional frame".

Idumea47b (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)