Talk:Renesas Electronics/Archives/2015

This Junk Article Doesn't Tell the Renesas Story At All

This article, which doesn't even have a coherent chronology regarding the company history, reports only good moves and big business deals, leaves out the selling of factories, closing of many other factories, laying off 10,000 employees, being such a market leader that it took a $1.5 billion bailout from the government to keep it from folding (structured in a way to make it look like some investors thought it was a good deal), and seems to have had no trouble other than having been "adversely affected" by an earthquake, while failing to note it was already losing money the moment the earthquake struck and had been for years prior to the earthquake.

This massive "company" (Can we call it that with $1.5B government money in it?) is little more than an amalgamation of product lines so great that NEC, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi didn't want them. And, since the company is Japanese, the reported financials are likely fraudulent or at least very misleading. There is a very murky history there of forming subsidiaries just to move losses to them, or much worse. The 1997 book FIASCO: Blood in the Water on Wall Street by Frank Partnoy describes how Japanese companies would come to them at a certain time each year to buy a sham financial instrument to show a massive paper profit in two weeks by putting a massive "asset" on the books that wouldn't show itself to be worthless until 30 years had passed.

This article is little more than a stub spruced up with some lines from the company website, and a full rewrite is needed.75.79.161.230 (talk) 04:05, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Whatever, dude, this is wikipedia, I hope you know about WP:RGW. The above information sounds decent, but is largely based on your own opinion, that is, until you can get refs for those statements. If you have the brains to dig so deep into a company's history, then you probably have the energy to get some decent refs and write the same thing in a rather neutral tone into the article itself. Good luck! Wonderfl ^(reply) 16:43, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

My point was that this article doesn't talk about technological details, people, or anything else, it's just a long long long list of business information about mergers, investments, big big big name stockholders, and shares issued, with all that peppered gratuitously with "(citation needed)" and "(clarification needed)", while not mentioning one single piece of bad news, which is what has defined this company from day one.

When a Japanese company forms a remote subsidiary or two Japanese companies (that should be fierce competitors) form a new company as a partnership of all their old and unprofitable product lines, something is up. And what is up is usually a hiding place for losses and previous bad moves. In Japan, subsidiaries are a place where losses and bad histories go to hide.

As far as "Good luck!" getting references, this isn't any opinion of mine, a Google search of Renesas loss has 230,000 returns of articles, including the following headlines:

Renesas expects a record annual net loss of $1.9 billion

Renesas faces a loss as 5,000 employees head for the door

Japanese chipmaker Renesas to cut 14000 jobs, sell loss-making unit

Loss making Renesas to sell chip plant to TSMC

Renesas withdraws from most of its loss-making mobile operations

Technology Today: Renesas gets $1.3bn bail-out; makes $1.9bn loss

Renesas posts net loss on sales down 29%

Renesas Records $690.5 Million Loss - Wall Street Journal

(and just last week) Renesas braces for costly restructuring, shares fall 11 percent

Any one of those are more telling and easier to source/cite references for than "...and several key clients decided to invest in the company.[citation needed]"

For a further offer of proof on my previous statement, "...since the company is Japanese, the reported financials are likely fraudulent or at least very misleading.", note the latest fraud scandal from a huge Japanese company, Toshiba getting caught cooking the books $1,200,000,000 and thinking bowing on television like a bunch a pansy-asses will convince everyone they're not crooks: http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/21/investing/toshiba-ceo-resigns/75.79.161.175 (talk) 16:11, 22 July 2015 (UTC)