Talk:Republican Party of Puerto Rico

Requested move 22 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved. See general agreement below to drop the year disambiguator in parentheses from this article's title. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there  20:12, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

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Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1903) → Republican Party of Puerto Rico – This is a somewhat complicated situation. From 1899 to 1924, Puerto Rico had a local "Republican Party" unaffiliated with the national U.S. Republican Party. The article covering both this historical party and the chronologically overlapping branch of the national U.S. Republican Party (which was established in 1903 and still exists) was recently split into two articles, one on the defunct party, one on the current party. Pageviews are useless because up until a few days ago there was a single page for both of them. However, I propose that the clear primary target between these two would have to be the nationally affiliated party that will soon celebrate 120 years of continuous operation, and which participated in the most recent Republican primary race. I would therefore move this page to the base page name, quashing the disambiguation page that is now there. The defunct party is already linked in the hatnote. bd2412 T 13:22, 22 May 2019 (UTC) --Relisted. Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there  20:45, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Relist note: members of the WikiProjects that have banners at the top of this talk page have been notified of this move request. Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there  20:55, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

* Move to "Republican Party in Puerto Rico"'. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 23:07, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

• Move to "Republican Party in Puerto Rico". I like SelfieCity's idea of moving the 1903 GOP affiliate to "Republican Party in Puerto Rico". It denotes exactly what it is and what it does, yet does not cause confusion with the authentic "Republican Party of Puerto Rico". Mercy11 (talk) 01:35, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support as proposed. The subject is known as the "Republican Party of Puerto Rico". It's also clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:45, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
• Comment: We have documentation that the Party established in 1899 lived 25 years. There is no documentation that the 1903 GOP affiliate has lived "continuously" since 1903. To claim that the 1903 GOP affiliate is 120 years old, we would need to see a historical trajectory that shows such affiliate did hold GOP presidential primaries during those 120 years, which is what national GOP affiliates do: hold primaries and send delegates. That said, I know of GOP presidential primaries in PR as far back as 2008 [1], not before. Based on that, the 1903 GOP affiliate has actually been around for some 15 years, not 120. Just advocating statehood doesn't make an organization a GOP state affiliate; it's got to hold primaries and send delegates. There's a self-published work that seems to claim the Puerto Rico GOP affiliate sent delegates from as far back as the 1980s but, again, it's SP, which is another reason we shouldn't claim the 1903 GOP affiliate to be neither 120 years old nor the PRIMARYTOPIC.

We also need to consider that just being pro-statehood, having "republican party" in the name, and being chronologically overlapping with the real "Republican Party of Puerto Rico" isn't synonymous with being the national GOP affiliate: the Socialist Party was also a pro-statehood party in Puerto Rico and had an overlap with the 1899 Republican Party. That said, we need to differentiate the roots of the ideology of an organization (the GOP affiliate claims to have existed since 1899) from its actual operational legacy to validate its claims. If we google the phrase "Republican Party of Puerto Rico", it returns 6 hits in Google Scholar, all for the 1899 Party. Meanwhile, Google Books returns over 20 pages of hits but only the first 2 pages (12 books) have direct results linking the entire phrase searched for, and 8 of the 12 results are hits for the 1899 Party. That's a pretty good indication that 1899 Party is the PRIMARYTOPIC, and not the "1903" GOP affiliate. Mercy11 (talk) 18:52, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

• What about, for the Republican Party that's truly Puerto Rican calling it "Republican Party (Puerto Rico)?" --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 23:38, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

• The problem with that is that such naming perpetuates the claim that the GOP affiliate is PRIMARYTOPIC; it's not. But, most important, it would not be consistent with standard Wikipedia practice to assign the PRIMARYTOPIC to an article that discusses an affiliate of another party, as opposed to a party that stands on its own right and merits. Mercy11 (talk) 00:50, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

OK, I think I see what you mean now. These prepositions are confusing me; the highlighting helps. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 01:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

• Comment Are they actually separate parties? The text at Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1899) seems to suggest they are ("In 1903, the party became an affiliate of the national Republican Party of the United States."). Also, the Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1903) article is rather confusing as the infobox claims it was dissolved in 1916, yet apparently it had primary elections in 2016... Number 57 21:03, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they are two separate parties - one is a local party that went extinct in 1924 and the other is the GOP-affiliate that started holding GOP primaries in Puerto Rico in 2008. The GOP affiliate is associated with, but not a part of, the New Progressive Party (Puerto Rico)) (NPP). The NPP and the GOP affiliate are two different parties now, just like the Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1899) and the Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1903) were two different parties then. Mercy11 (talk) 01:51, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Could the articles be updated/corrected then? As it stands, the two articles contradict each other and the 1903 one is also internally inconsistent. Number 57 11:18, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• Support original move request - While "Republican Party -in- Puerto Rico" is not totally inaccurate, there is no need to deviate from the vastly more WP:COMMONNAME designation of "Republican Party of Puerto Rico". This is obvious from the organization's self-designation and book references (Google Ngrams shows no usage of "in" name). Just use the legal name of the organization. Note that none of the state-based Republican Party organizations are titled using "in". SelfieCity and Mercy11, please reconsider. -- Netoholic @ 21:33, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

The "in" prepositions was an idea that seemed helpful in this somewhat complicated situation. It seemed to provide one possible solution, so that readers won't be confused. But thanks for your link; that means the "in" preposition is probably not the way to go. So, so much for working on the name, and the focus goes back to differentiating the affiliate from the Party by qualifying via parenthesis added at teh end of the names. IAE, in re-focusing, what's under study here -though not phrased quite that way in the move nomination- is whether or not the GOP affiliate is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Based on its significantly lower coverage in the literature, it's not, and the 1899 Puerto Rican Party is the PRIMARYTOPIC.

However, there is a related complexity I think should be addressed in this forum because it's rather intrinsic to the original issue: Since there is no ambiguity as to the founding date of the 1899 Puerto Rican Party (already included in the title of the article) but there is founding date ambiguity for the GOP affiliate (2008?, 1919?, 1903?), I would also propose that the name of the GOP affiliate be moved from "Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1903)" to "Republican Party of Puerto Rico (GOP affiliate)" (or at least something else that doesn't include dates). This solves 2 problems: it keeps the entire name with the "of" proposition intact for the GOP affiliate, and (2) it differentiates it entirely from the 1899 party which, when founded in 1899, was not a GOP affiliate anyway. Mercy11 (talk) 01:51, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Its fairly clear that the Republican Party of Puerto Rico (1903) (the modern organization still operating in PR) is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the title "Republican Party of Puerto Rico, and so doesn't need any disambiguation. -- Netoholic @ 02:34, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• Move to original request per new information. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 02:42, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
• Support original move request The current and long-lasting party is clearly the primary topic here. Toa Nidhiki05 02:01, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. I've come across these two pages before in connection with fixing a DABlink or two, and they are extremely confusing. The 1903 party was dissolved in 1916 and refounded in 1919. The refounded party (or was it the 1899 party?) split into two in 1924, and the two factions were absorbed into other parties. Information on the origin of the current party is completely lacking. The claim to continuity from 1903 does not stand up to scrutiny. I would hesitate to say that either the well-documented 1899 party or the poorly-documented 1903 party is WP:PTOPIC, at least considering the current state of the latter article. Narky Blert (talk) 11:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.