Talk:Republikflucht

Name

Per WP:UE, why is this not under East Germany refugees? I have seen and heard the English version many times, the German version is used much less often.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Seen many times? Where? There are 47 Google web hits, 6 in English, and some of them stretch over two sentences as "... East Germany. Refugees ..." [1]. Compare that to [2]. -- Matthead ^discuß!     O       20:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

First, try "East German refugees" instead of "East Germany refugees", the hits increse by 10-fold ([3] vs [4]. Second, your Repu... search shows at least half of the books are in German (ex. [5]).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Among other, your search yields "nine years before 406, when the East German refugees from the Huns broke through the Western Empire's frontier on the Rhine". Besides, the victims of post-WW2 expulsions are also East German refugees, as it is a general term. Republikflucht, which is connected solely to the GDR history, is used in English as the proper term for the "offense" [6]-- Matthead ^discuß!     O       21:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to second the move proposed by Piotrus. The page is bearing a cryptic name with no relation to any known English language convention. The article should be speedily renamed to East German refugees or perhaps Escape from East Germany (better). The reference provided by Piotrus is not only convincing, but also quite supportive of such a move, but you have to put the name in parentheses, in order to see it. --Poeticbent talk 21:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

So there is an urgent need to speedily rename an article that exists since 5/2006 as Republikflucht? It has been edited by several people since, how come you two pick on it now? What about Rzeczpospolita, is that more familiar to English speakers than the Republikflucht, which made world-wide bad news from 1961 to 1989? Young persons on the east side of the iron curtain may have missed this (and other things) in their youth. Republik resembles republic closer than the Rzczp-thing, while Flucht, while not an article of its own, has 5 pages of search results on English Wikipedia anyway. -- Matthead ^discuß!     O       16:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Please stay on topic. We are not talking about other article, but about this one.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• This is an essentially german term, such as Ostpolitik and Blitzkrieg, and for that reason it should not be translated as it would cause confusion and identity loss to this article. -201.31.242.162 (talk) 18:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Temporary exit visas

How difficult was it to obtain a temporary exit visa and what measures did the authorities take to ensure those who were issued with them actually intended to return (Im guessing they rarely issued visas to different members of a family at the same time) ? 213.40.112.230 (talk) 11:32, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

From my recollection: My father and mother (born 1942 and 1940) received their first visa to visit Western Germany in 1989. I'm not certain if they ever dared to ask for one before. My parents (both were teachers) once got told, that they should not invite their relatives from Western Germany. But my Grandma was already retired and thus she could not be told not to invite somebody. A lot happened in eastern Germany without laws or judges. Just decisions by some government employee. Separation of powers did not exist and I did not even know what this concept means, until unification of Germany. ExcessPhase (talk) 03:20, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

It was generally fairly easy for people of pension age to get permission to travel West. Their flight risk was deemed to be low and if they failed to return the Government didn't need to worry about paying their pensions anymore. The main obstacle to such travel was obtaining enough Western currency to make the trip worthwhile. 217.39.35.159 (talk) 16:24, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Republikflucht in reverse

How rare were instances of people moving INTO East Germany (or other Eastern bloc states) either for political reasons, to escape Western justice or simply to be with family members ? Was it easy to do so and what was the attitude of the Eastern authorities to such immigration (Im guessing they appreciated the propaganda value although there were fears about spying) ? 213.40.112.230 (talk) 11:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

it was no big problem for westerners going east (the Federal Republic of Germany aloud it's citizens to travel and migrate where ever thay want to, even GDR; so it wasn't a Republikflucht), traveling wasn't uncommen but migration didn't happen often (but I don't have any numbers and I don't remember any special case of migration) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.235.204 (talk) 15:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

see also Rote Armee Fraktion. Generally speaking, the FRG had no problem with its citizens travelling to GDR, it was in fact quite common. Yaan (talk) 17:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

There is one famous example of migration from 'west' to 'east' Germany, chancellor Angela Merkel. She was born in Hamburg (west), but with a few months of her birth the family moved to east Germany. TiffaF (talk) 18:47, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Dean Reed was another example although he was American rather than (West) German. 217.39.35.159 (talk) 16:44, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

"Temporary Republikflucht"/Border Crossers

Should the article not contain a mention of the phenomonen of "border crossers" who lived in East Berlin but worked (and/or shopped) in West Berlin during the 1949-61 period (before the wall was built) ? The GDR authorities took a dim view of this practice (perhaps suprisingly given that it was a potential source of badly needed foreign currency) and occasionally subjected "border crossers" to varying degrees of burecratic harassment although didnt actually outlaw it outright until 1961. 213.40.116.222 (talk) 13:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hence it should not contain a mention, unless, perhaps, under "see also". Republikflucht is a thing the GDR persecuted as a crime (which it wasn't morally, but that's still a difference). Something the GDR did not particularly like but never outlawed should be treated quite distinct. (And by the way, especially before the Berlin Wall was built but officially also for all the rest of the time, we would still have to treat the question whether East Berlin was part of the GDR at all.)--91.34.195.243 (talk) 10:55, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

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Translation

"Desertion from the republic" is not a good translation and alters the meaning. "Flucht" is usually simply "escape", with "flight" being the lexical equivalent that shares the same root. --2001:16B8:31BB:2500:5982:9333:790D:ED7 (talk) 02:16, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

"Republikflucht is a German term which translates to "desertion from the republic" or "flight from the republic" with migrants known as "Republikflüchtling(e)" ("deserter(s) from the republic")."

German Driving Licence

I too have an issue with translating Republikflucht as "Desertion from the republic". A more obvious translation would be "fleeing the republic". There is an equal problem with the second part of the sentence. "Flüchtling" is also the German word for refugee, as defined by the "Genfer Flüchtlingskonvention" (Geneva convention on refugees). Translating it as "Refugees from the Republic" puts a totally different spin on it.

This is a case of one German word covering multiple meanings which are different words in English. When you pick one English word, you are putting a POV "spin" on it, positive or negative depending on which English word you choose. Given that I think "fleeing" or "flight" is the most neutral translation to choose. "Reich"and "Führer" have a similar problem in English. The have been given so many negative translations into English that few English know they are legitimate words. Millions of Germans have a "Führerschein" (Permit to be a Führer). --TiffaF (talk) 17:53, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Paragraph BVFG § 3 or 4?

Regarding this section: " They had to have fled before 1 July 1990 in an attempt to rescue themselves from an emergency situation – especially one posing a threat to health, life, personal freedom, or freedom of conscience – created by the political conditions imposed by the regime in the territory from which they had escaped (BVFG § 3)." I think this might be incorrect. In the German Wiki entry for Sowjetzonenflüchtling [[7]], it says that BVFG § 4 applied these conditions. The sourcing is not clear, so anyone willing to double check this, that would be great. Dellwegg (talk) 16:14, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Date Republikflucht became illegal.

The article suggests that Republikflucht only became illegal with the construction of the Berlin wall but was this really the case ? One hears a lot of anecdotes from years prior where travellers took care to avoid being conspicuous by not travelling in groups or carrying too many personal belongings so they obviously had reasons to conceal their intent ? 217.39.35.159 (talk) 16:42, 21 August 2024 (UTC)