Talk:Rhoda Holmes Nicholls/Archive 1

Find a Grave

Regarding the removal of the citation: <ref name=FG>{{ cite web | url=http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=9029868 | title=Rhoda Holmes Nicholls (birth, death, burial info only) | publisher=Find a Grave | accessdate=September 1, 2014 }}</ref>

From what I've gathered, it is absolutely a non-reliable source for biographical information... but memorial information (dates of death, etc.) could be cited with Find a Grave. There's even a template to make that easier Template:Find a Grave.

As mentioned in the title - the source was used for birth, death, burial info only.--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:38, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria:Just a summary of next steps taken since there was no response to the talk page, but changes to the article:

• The cemetery information has been removed.
• I found another source for the full of birth; There was already a source for date of death.

For future reference, the appropriate step for removing citations mid-paragraph is to add a {{citation needed|date= }} tag. Otherwise, it makes it look like the following source supplied the information.

No response is needed, just an FYI.--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:35, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Carole, it has been the general consensus at WP:RSN that Find-a-Grave is not suitable as a source for anything, including memorial information. It is rarely accepted as even an external link. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:40, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Then it would seem wise to remove the Template:Find a Grave altogether or at the very least update the information on the template page.

My understandings from what I've read there and noticeboard postings is: never, ever use as a source for biographical info (makes tons of sense) and don't use as a source for dob, dod, or cemetery if there's a reliable secondary source (agree there, too). I see a recent posting that it's ok to use as an external link, but that's not an issue to me. I never add FAG as an external link.

Do you know why the Find a Grave template page has not been updated?--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

You mean the documentation? Generally the people commenting at RSN and elsewhere would not tend to look at template documentation unless directed to it specifically, and so would not be aware of a need for an update. (I'm not quite sure of the distinction being made between biographical info and dob/dod - to me those are essentially biographical data). Nikkimaria (talk) 04:50, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

I am confused that the one place that doesn't require a lot of research (i.e., noticeboards) about use of Find a Grave as a resource should not be in synch with what you consider a hard and fast fact? I will post this on the template talk page, there's not need to go round and round about this here.

Just to help clarify where I should be looking for clarification about Find a Grave (which will help for the template talk discussion): When I've tried to research RSN for Find a Grave, I've gotten into mucho noticeboard postings - which varying opinions. It sounds like you're saying that instead of using the template, I should be referring to another definitive place at would give a contributor direction?

For what it's worth, I generally avoid using FAG and when I do so it's extremely rare that I use it if there's not a photo of a gravestone (What counts as a reliable source + note #6). Going forward, I won't ever use it again without a photo of a gravestone.--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Discussion started at: Find a Grave template talk page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

To explain a bit about how Find a Grave operates, most of the 121million records were added by individuals. A large number, ≈2.6 million total, were added by the Veterans Administration, Commonwealth Graves Commission and the American Battle Monuments Commission. As records are added, the contributor may "designate" the person as "famous". Find a Grave will review the designation and accept or reject it. If accepted, the listing is under the editorial control of Find a Grave. Per the references in the Find a Grave article, it is considered useful for genealogical research. In the case of Nicholls, we have two considerations: 1. Find a Grave has editorial control over the page as Nichols is a famous person; but 2. there is no gravestone. That said, I think the editorial control factor makes the particular page useful as an external link. I would not say Nicholls is buried there based on the link. (Interestingly, the cemetery is listed in the National Register of Historical Places.) – S. Rich (talk) 22:51, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

@CaroleHenson: I think I'm mistaken about the cemetery. See: National Register of Historic Places listings in Hartford, Connecticut, which lists a Spring Grove Cemetery. (The reference is a bad link.) Sorry if I've sent you on a wild goose chase. – S. Rich (talk) 02:36, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

@Srich32977: Not a problem, when I couldn't find it in the list of historic places for Fairfield County or via some google searches, I figured it was likely rolled up in another listing and gave up the search.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

@Srich32977: That is an extremely helpful response. Since the FAG citations are removed/replaced, we're in good shape now. That's interesting about the National Register - just because I'm curious, I'm going to see if I can find the nomination form and if there's info there. Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2014 (UTC)